should inmates be prevented from suicide?

Great Debates
1

A novel I’m reading is set on death row and it describes the inmates not having certain tools/items that would enable suicide.

From further reading, it seems that suicide is less common in prison than in jail, that it is more common among white inmates than black, is more common among inmates in single cells, and happens more commonly among inmates sentenced to more than 8 years and convicted of crimes against persons. About a quarter to a third of suicides in most studies were sentenced to life. Cite for some of this data (this is a pdf that I have converted to HTML by using Google): http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:sxts5PEzG4UJ:www.nicic.org/pubs/1995/012475.pdf+prison+suicide&hl=en

Most studies seem to show that around 50% of all prison suicides are committed by people with documented “mental illness” (I do not know how that term is being defined in all studies), and that approximately the same percentage made previous suicide attempts before being successful. (I cannot discount a previous attempt being classified as a symptom of mental illness.)

Attempts to lessen suicide include medical screening to find “tendencies” or previous attempts, direct observation of inmates in solitary, limited use of solitary, removing all items from the cell aside from a mattress–including clothing other than underwear or perhaps a paper gown.

Despite these precautions, suicide ranks third (as of 1993) as a cause of death in prison, behind “natural causes” and AIDS.

I’m having trouble finding national prison suicide rates. Highest, it seems, in Vermont, lower in Maryland, lower still in Texas. (Vermont’s total prison population is tiny, and one suicide can skew results.)

From the above cite: “Excluding non-reporting jurisdictions, the national prison suicide rate, based on BJS data of 639,281 inmates in custody as of December 31, 1991, would be 13.9 suicides per 100,000 inmates.”

So there are some rough statistics and I’m willing to be challenged on any of them.

My question: Should programs such as these be in place to prevent suicide among inmates who are sentenced to maximum security prisons? Excluding inmates with a history of mental illness, should prison inmates be permitted (not encouraged, but permitted) to commit suicide?

If not, why not? If so, should there be limits, perhaps based on sentence length or other factors?

My position is that it is inhumane to prevent the suicide of an inmate who wants to die. I recognize that it may be a logistical nightmare, but I believe that the inmates should be allowed the self-determination of suicide.

2

/hijack on

Whats the difference between jail and prison?

/hijack off

I think anyone who wants to kill themselves should be allowed. Regardless of why or where they happen to reside. You don’t want to live, fine by me.

3

A distant relative of mine, beautiful 16 year old girl, experienced what was probably a transient depression. A course of pills would have put her right, had she told anyone.

Instead, she put a shotgun in her mouth. It was her father that found her.

So, with that, and knowing that this girl could easily be alive and happy today, you’ll understand if I respectfully disagree, cdnguy. There’s no right to suicide by the mentally troubled, in my book.

4

Jail is where you sit after being arrested and/or while awaiting trial. Prison is the punishment for people who have been convicted of a crime.
As far as suicide goes, I’m not sure. On the one hand, I think people have a right to die if they want to. But since prisoners are in the custody of the state, they should at least be treated for depression if they show signs of it. If the therapy isn’t working and they still want to commit suicide, then I guess they should be allowed to.

5

First, I can’t believe I typo’d in the subject after previewing about a hundred damned times.

Now, to answer your question! “Jail” has two meanings, it seems. There’s the place that a county uses for short-term incarceration, like 30-day terms for drunk driving. The more important feature, for the sake of inmate suicide, is that “jail” is where convicted persons go before transfer to prison–a long-term state or fed run facility.

It appears that suicide rates in short-term incarceration are higher than for people not incarcerated, and that’s not surprising. But the much higher rates come from jailed persons who are waiting to be sent on to prison.

I hope that made some sense.

6

The problem is that the prisoners are in the custody of the state, we’ve already decided that they aren’t competent to make decisions for themselves, so why should we assume they are competent to make the decision to end their own lives?

And as a practical matter, jailhouse suicides are very often murders. Under our current system, guards are supposed to prevent suicides no matter what. How do you regulate a system where guards can facilitate suicide? How do you prevent the system from being abused by the guards? The way things stand, any suicide that happens on a guard’s watch is deemed a deriliction by the guard. Do we really want a system where the guards hand prisoners nooses and yell encouragement?

7

Thanks for the answers to the jail/prison thing, Sleeping and Jsgoddess .

Mr. Moto I of course don’t mind if you respectfully disagree or disrespectively disagree for that matter. I admit to never knowing anyone who successfully committed suicide, and while I don’t think it shoud be illegal, or even hard to do, I still feel for those who have had a loved one go out in such a way. I’m sorry to any who have lost someone due to this, and if my views are offensive. But I still feel that way.

8

Which compares to a nationwide rate of10.7 per 100,000 . It doesn’t look like inmates are significantly more likely to kill themselves than the general population.

9

You’re assuming that a person’s mindset in prison is the same as it would be outside of prison. That the dramatic change in environment should have no impact on their outlook on life. Since that’s not true, and the state is responsible for the person’s well being while in custody, it is the state’s responsibility to maintain the health of the prisoner until such a time as the prisoner leaves. At that point the sole person responsible for the continuing health of the ex-prisoner is him/herself. At that point they can off themselves.

10

So everyone else can off themselves with impunity but prisoners?

11

Every adult person I suppose.

The fact is that while incarcerated, prisoners are the state’s responsibility. I mean if they get sick or hungry who is it that provides for them? The state. Why? Because ultimately we believe that you serve your time, rehabilitate yourself and return to society in either the same or better shape than when you went in.

The state takes on the role of ensuring a prisoner is able to return to society at large. It becomes problematic to do that if you’re dead.

12

I agree. For that matter, it shouldn’t be limited to prisons. Anyone, anywhere, any time should have the right to terminate their own existance without stigma or reproach. If they can’t do it for themselves, they should be allowed to request that it be done for them (euthanasia).

13

I found a different statistic, within that same cite:

“As indicated, 1,339 suicides occurred in state and federal prisons throughout
the country from 1984 through 1993, resulting in a 10-year suicide rate of 20.6.”

And, of course, ability to commit suicide is at least moderately harder in prison than at large, while desire would be, I would presume, at least moderately greater.

14

One also has to wonder what proportion of inmate suicides are actually well-disguised murders. Facilitating inmate suicides might also be facilitating inmate murders.

15

I agree entirely.

If I were sentenced to life in prison, with no hope of being released, I’d seize every opportunity to try to kill myself. What would be the point of spending the rest of my life in a freaking cage? I’d say forcing someone to stay alive while he is imprisoned for decades is equivalent to torture.

16

Are you implying we should stop doing this?

But seriously, we (prison guards) have training in suicidal signs and ample procedures for monitoring suicidal inmates. It is recognized as a serious issue and is addressed as such.

As for murders being disguised as suicides, all inmates deaths are investigated. Thanks to public suspicions, even deaths due to natural causes are investigated by outside agencies to assure that we didn’t contribute to them. Any apparent suicide is investigated as a possible homicide by the police.

The issue of whether inmates should have the right to commit suicide is a subset of whether people in general should have this right. Until the big debate is resolved, there’s little point in arguing about lesser aspects of it, other than to agree that considering imprisonment to be an unpleasant situation is a realistic assessment of reality. Whether death is or should be a prefered alternative is the heart of the debate. As others have noted, the current legal situation is that the state hold inmates in loco parentis - we are obligated to protect them, even from themselves.

17

Since when can everyone else “off themselves” with impunity? Have you ever tried?

SDMB enlightened approach to mental illness strikes again!

18

There’s a big difference between feeding a hungry inmate and forcing a suicidal inmate to stay alive: one is done at the inmate’s request, the other directly contradicts the inmate’s requests.

It also becomes moot. His suffering is over, and he’s not going to repeat his crime if he’s dead.

19

The main inmates at risk of suicide are the very recently sentenced, those under 21, and especially under 18, the mentally ill, and female prisoners.

Suicide in prison is also more common among those who are to be released in the fairly near future - not having anything to go out to along with the uncertainty can build up pressures.

Virtually all inmates will be released into society, it therefore makes sense to try and moderate their behaviour and stabilise them.

The length of sentence is only very loosely associated with suicide rates in prison, the majority of suicidal inmates are on relatively short terms for fairly petty or repeat crimes, does a car thief deserve to be encouraged to commit suicide ?

There are many parents on this board, how would you feel, or how would your own parents feel if conditions and care in prisons were so bad that suicide issues were not effectively addressed ? I’d guess there are a few on this board who do something seemingly innocuous like maybe smoking a little weed now and then, or perhaps they got mad at their spouse or acted stupidly whilst drunk - the ways of getting yourself into jail are not exclusive and it can happen to ordinary folk in one unlucky or stupid moment.

There is another issue here too, when inmates or any person becomes absolutely desparate, suicide is one option, along with violence to anyone in the vicinity, and that means prison staff.

Prison staff are the ones who have to clear up the mess, the blood and feaces, the vomit, cut the hanging ligature and attempt first aid procedures.

Along with those, prison staff also have to deal with the relatives and any subsequent enquiry and also possible feelings of guilt and feelings of failure.

There is also the idea that prisons, believe it or not, are places of safety, many prisoners would not be alive today if they had not been sent down.

We are rightfully suspicious and watchful with governments, its the way we ensure our freedom, you cannot have a truly free society if the state is conniving to encourage its undesirables to commit suicide, the definition of undesirable might mean one thing to a democrat and quite another to a republican. Travel a little further down that road you soon find yourself going onward toward a very dangerous destination indeed.

20

cdnguy:

You’re not being realistic. How has the prisoner served his/her debt to society if they can simply check out any time they like? Sure, folks may want to off themselves, and I suppose one could argue people ought ot have that right, but prisoners shouldn’t have the same rights as society at large. If they did, they wouldn’t be prisoners, now would they.

But heck, isn’t keeping someone alive who wants to be dead Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Well, my Hemlockian friend, I’ve been giving this lots of thought…

Here my idea: Let them die, but only if they can give something back. I say they can repay their debt by being gladiators. It’d be spectacular! They get to out in a more timely fashion (according to their wishes, at least), in a blaze of glory, and we get entertained; plus the prison system gets oodles of cash from the Pay Per View subscribers. The perfect solution!