Should libraries offer movies, music CDs and video games?

Great Debates
21

I’m not worried so much about the educational qualities of a game as I am about how resource-intensive it is. Peggle/Chuzzle type games are fairly low resource, as I understand it, and when your time’s up, it’s easy to leave an unfinished game. However, from what I understand of WoW, one gets into a group of players, and one does not wish to leave that group until the mission has been accomplished. And I think that WoW requires a better computer than the other type of games.

For the record, I have resisted getting into WoW because I’m afraid that I would get involved in it too much. BTDT.

22

Oakland had one of the coolest libraries I’ve ever heard of- a tool lending library. They had all kinds of specialized home improvement tools to do everything from laying tile to re-roofing a house. Not only did it save people hundreds of dollars of buying/renting tools that they needed for only one project, but it encouraged people in a downtrodden area to maintain their homes and neighborhoods

23

Mild hijack: I seem to recall that libraries filtering web access brought up the topic of it amounting to violating first amendment rights, since the library could be construed as part of the government. Does anyone know what ultimately became of this? I’m not sure if it was ever brought forth in a court…

24

We aren’t talking about webgames at all. We’re talking about racing games being played on a dedicated console in a library (one of the Need 4 Speed series on a Playstation 2, from memory, of which the main library possesses two, and other subsidiary libraries possess some). This is what happens in my town’s library; I have seen it with my own eyes.

Further, there’s a whole industry that lends out movies and games at cheap prices. Why the hell are taxes being spent trying to compete with Blockbuster and Movie Bank, and diverting funding away from an area where there is no private enterprise taking up the slack? Are libraries “universities of the poor”, or tax subsidized recreation centres for middle aged housewives to play bejeweled and the unemployed to play on the PS2?

25

You didn’t read what I wrote in the original thread and it doesn’t even look like you read the OP, because we’re talking about both. Without going into hysterics, what exactly is so wrong about playing console video games in the library? How is this any different than having a magic show for the little kids or doing some kind of weirdo craft that results in more spilled glitter than a strip club?

And does it change your opinion when I tell you that most libraries that have consoles had them donated? I mentioned that in the other thread, I hope you read it this time.

Libraries are not trying to compete with Blockbuster, most spend a small fraction of their budget money on DVDs when compared to books. Secondly, who does this cheaply? Thirdly, you haven’t actually said why DVDs and video games shouldn’t be stocked in the collection. If you’re angling for the “they’re not educational” angle, that ship sailed in late 1800s when libraries started adding novels (they turn women into sluts doncha know).

26

Honestly?

They’re both.

Personally, I’d rather have kids playing games in the library than vandalizing my neighborhood. If a community wishes to use it’s library partly for entertainment as well as for education I fail to see where this is a major problem.

27

Yes, you claimed that. And offered absolutely zero evidence that this is the case.

Libraries stock DVD’s and games. Libraries are competing with Blockbuster. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Blockbuster, movie bank, any local DVD rental shop.

No, I’m questioning why any tax money should be spent on something that is amply being provided by private enterprise.

28

So the fact that I’m a librarian and this is what I’ve personally witnessed is not good enough?

All right. Go to Google, type in… video games, libraries, librarian, wii, any combination of words like that… and read the results. Many of the articles provided will discuss the game system’s donation to the library.

But I ask again, how is spending $150-$250 on a video game system (that the library now owns) worse than dropping $150-$250 per session on a magic act or an animal show or a science demonstration?

As mentioned in the other thread, the average tax payment per person to support the library is $27 a year. For that they get access to the entire collection of not just DVDs, but books, music CDs and video games as well. Possibly numbering hundreds of thousands of choices. For $27, you can rent about 8 movies from Blockbuster.

Then shouldn’t we close up the library completely? After all, all those books mean they must be competing with Barnes and Noble.

29

Which part are out disputing here? That private individuals or companies donate everything from books to video game consoles to public libraries?? Just google ‘game consoles donated to public libraries’. I don’t see the point in putting in random links illustrating examples of such donation as they are pretty numerous…at least here in the US. I can’t vouch for the UK…never dealt with the public library system there.

Oh, come now. This is ridiculous. Libraries stock a FEW DVD’s and games…perhaps a row of them. Usually they are donated or in fair to poor condition and usually they have a single copy of any given game or DVD (or if it’s a library system like we have here in Albuquerque the games, DVD’s, audio books, etc, are scattered around in various different branches throughout the metro area). They usually don’t have the latest and greatest games or movies either, as there is more lag time between release and when a library gets it.

There really is no comparison…which is probably why Blockbuster doesn’t consider itself in competition with the public libraries and doesn’t produce ads extolling it’s own virtue and denigrating that of the library.

Well, there are book stores like Borders and Amazon where you can get books. There is iTunes and music stores like Sam Goody or Tower where you can get music. And you can get internet access at home too. Why should public funds be spent on something that is provided for by private enterprise in these cases too? I don’t see how it’s different for libraries to provide movies, music, internet access and even video games as opposed to books, if that is what the public wants from their local library.

-XT

30

The UK actually has a publicly funded university library devoted to the preservation of video games, the National Videogame Archive. It’s a shame that the Brits don’t seem to realize that “video game” is supposed to be two words though.

The University of Michigan Computer and Video Game Archive offers a similar approach in the US, but it’s more focused on giving students (for entertainment) and researchers (for research) hands on time with the games.

31

Sorry, I am missing where the private enterprise is that provides, for free, access to information.

Free access to textual material, film, music, and the internet, as well as access to professionals to freely assist a customer in the acquisition of particular information… does Amazon do any of this?

In the United States government information is free and the property of the people (irrespective of what Cheney thinks). Without using a library, how would you - for free - access that information?

32

Several libraries I’ve frequented used to lend video tapes from National Geographic and The Smithsonian, as well as others that I’ve forgotten. I enjoyed watching them but would have never bought them; to that end, I considered them a good thing. I don’t know why movies would be any different. I don’t know if the National Geographic and/or Smithsonian tapes have been replaced with DVDs; I haven’t been in a library in years.

33

I don’t know about your library, but few of the DVDs in mine are less than three years old, and about half are educational DVDs not found in Blockbuster. Blockbuster makes its money on hot new rentals, I bet they’d be happy to not have to devote shelf space to low rental classics. Your concern for Blockbuster’s bottom line is misplaced.
My library does not offer games, and I’ve never noticed anyone playing games on the library’s computers. The time limit on them is short enough to make playing not really a good option if anyone is waiting.
As for music CDs, when I decided it was time to learn about classical music, the library’s collection of classical CDs was invaluable in letting me listen to a wide range of things I never could have afforded, even used.

34

Are you kidding? No, of course it isn’t good enough. You claimed 75% of all library consoles were donated. How the hell do you justify that figure? Anecdote seems to be the order of the day, here.

And, even if 75% of all consoles were donated, that leaves 25% of them for us to talk about in this thread.

Heh.

My local library charges a small fee for expenses such as this. As they should.

Who cares how much it is? The point is that tax dollars are being wasted on a needless expense, one that the free market is amply covering. Why should people care if only $28 per person was being spent? $30? $50? $100? Surely if everybody was happy with spending $x, they’d be happy spending $x+1? After all, what is an extra dollar? (:p)

You can rent books? £2 video rental vs. £200 book purchase (that’s the retail price of the last book I borrowed from the university library, according to Amazon.co.uk). Not really a good comparison, is it?

Sorry, I am missing where I claimed that it does? (If I was being facetious, I’d point out Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg and a host of other free sources of information.)

It seemed like a pretty straightforward query. Justin Bailey claimed with zero evidence other than his own personal experiences in a tiny fraction of the western world’s libraries (let alone America’s) that most consoles were donated (on the order of 75%). I asked what evidence there was for such a claim.

Further, as I’ve already stated, even if Justin Bailey’s figures are correct, that still leaves 25% of all libraries purchasing consoles directly (by his own admission), and then the question of whether tax monies should be spent on those consoles is a question with a premise.

35

Hey computer professionals! What was the first thing that made you fall in love with computers?

In almost all cases, I’m betting its games.

36

Porn.

37

I thought it would be a way to pick up chicks. Go figure…

-XT

38

Capt. Ridley’s Shooting Party - We seem to be coming back around to “its wrong because I say its wrong.”

Why is it a waste? Because Blockbuster exists at all, therefore anyone that wants access to movies or games for entertainment is a freeloading fuckhead? I’ve been waiting for you to pull out the smoking gun reason why games/movies in libraries are wrong and you can’t seem to do it.

Also, what kind of cite do you expect when it comes to who pays for game consoles in libraries? Why would that information be collected anywhere? And why is the word of a professional in the field not good enough?

39

Characterize it like that, if you want. Fine.

However, I don’t believe that government should be providing services that private industry does well and cheaply. (I really don’t think my position is all that controversial, to be honest.) Book loaning: fine, very few companies do that, those that do have small catchment areas limited to large cities, and any that do will likely be outside the budget of the majority of people (based on the pricing of the small number of existing membership libraries).

Movies and games: not fine. There’s a whole host of companies, both on the high street and online, that provide the same services very cheaply, and there’s no need to divert funding away from book loaning to compete with them.

Isn’t it up to you to provide a good reason for why games and movies should be included? Aren’t you the one proposing spending further tax money on this? Your only argument seems to be that a) many libraries are doing it, so it must be good and b) vague hand-waving crap about the community, or something and c) some transparent attempt at poisoning the well.

There simply isn’t the same compelling argument for the existence of movie lending in public libraries as there is for books, or, if there is, you haven’t yet made it!

You claimed around 75% of libraries received donated consoles. Is it really that extraordinary that I’d ask you how you support that claim?

With respect, you’re hardly an impartial source.

Further, you seem to have overlooked my point: even if we accept your figure of 75% of all libraries receiving donated consoles, by your own admission 25% do not, and it is perfectly legitimate to debate whether any money should be spent on consoles within those libraries. Do you agree?

40

I don’t think you know what “cheaply” means, to be honest. And your position is extremely controversial, as the vast majority of libraries carry movies and CDs. As for games, the percent of the budget that is put towards is so small as to be pointless. It’s likely some libraries spend more on toner.

I’ve said it before, but libraries try to house information/entertainment options over a wide variety of formats and genres. No one is inherently better than the other.

I have already pointed out that even if a game console was purchased with library funds, it is roughly equal to the amount of money that would be spent on a visiting performer. No one questions the value of visiting performers, even though their fee only covers one performance. Having a game console day can be used dozens of times a year and can be open to a variety of ages (Google “wii bowling seniors” if you don’t believe me).

Also, you keep throwing out this 75/25 split as if it were gospel. It’s not. It’s my best guess based on discussions with colleagues across the country and by reading articles about the games in libraries movement. No one has the actual percentages because no one cares beyond the individual library level.