I’ve loved her works of fiction, but her straight philisophical books left much to be desired. The books were able to make me think about things I hadn’t thought of before. It did, in some ways affect my thinking. Not mind control, but simple realization. I saw some things from a different perspective. On the other hand, many of her ideas, while fundamentaly sound, wouldn’t work in the long run due to the inherent falibility of humans. When reading, you have to understand that she came here from Communist Russia. It was a whole new world she never really dreamed of. And, at the top of that world were the so-called ‘robber-barrens’ of the time. These were the men that she grew to respect more than anything, and the men whe based her characters off of. Unfortunately, her vision of these men was taken not from facts, but from her idea that anybody who could accomplish such things and such wealth must be highly moral, almost infalable people.
It made me think enough that I actually studied (not practiced) Objectivism for a little while and found that far too much of it didn’t really suit me at all. I also found most of her views on male/female relationships, excuse the language, pretty fucked up.
All in all, though, I highly recommend her fictional works. The worse that can happen, really, is that you’d think a little bit, but not enjoy it. Anybody who was viciously swayed by any of these books to begin with was probably pretty weak-minded, anyway, and would have been affected by something else equally had they not been exposed to Rand’s work. Hope this helps a little bit.
One more thing. If you read about Rand’s life, she was pretty nutty. I’d take that into account when reading the book.
I doubt if any book will convert any person, unless they’re already leaning in that direction.I’ve read Anthem (during a lunch hour it’s a really quick read) and Atlas Shrugged. AS is really science fiction – I think that it meets the criteria, and the folks who edited **The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction ** clearly thought so, too. It’s not great science fiction, I disagree with a lot of what she says, and think she oversimplifies horrendously. Obviously I wasn’t converted.
But try to discuss her stuff with other people and you’ll find out that she’s influential. People either love her or hate her. Worse than that, they’lll think that you are in the opposite camp, and know all about the controversies surrounding her and her bunch. Do a web search on the Randians and read up on it all before you venture out unarmed and naive.
If it is Carl, the book should catch fire when you touch it.
Personally I would say no don’t read it. There are some people who are annoying because they have read one too many Ayn Rand books. And in my book the number of Ayn Rand books necessary to read to achieve that is one.
The first Ayn Rand book I read was Anthem, which I absolutely loved, although this was because of its poetical style more than its plot or ideas. Then I picked up The Fountainhead, which was all right, although I some problems with it, like its hero being a rapist. At that point I started recommending Ayn Rand to my friends, and they usually started with her most famous work, Atlas Shrugged. To answer the question, yes, they turned into assholes–and tried to justify it philosophically. But I think one of the reasons is that we were about 15-16, and the celebration of egoism was appealing at the time. Our Randist phase didn’t last more than a few weeks. The next summer, I read Atlas Shrugged myself and I thought it was pretty bad as literature although it had interesting philosophical ideas. If you need one reason to read Ayn Rand’s works, it’s so you can participate in the Randist debates that seem to be
all over the Internet. I never heard a satisfactory explanation for why Dagny, as Rand’s ideal and moral person, murders the guard near the end of the novel.) Just be aware that what you’re reading is fiction, and read some essays critical of her work.
I don’t think any book can turn a person into an asshole. I do think that certain people read books, take things out of context, and act like assholes in their pronouncement of what they interpret the writer’s meaning to be.
It can be Ayn Rand, the Bible, or Women Who Run With The Wolves… Take any of it literally or out of context and force it on another, and an asshole is born.
I’ve got to say that I preferred The Fountainhead to Atlas Shrugged. The former was enjoyable, while the latter was a struggle page by page (well, OK, I actually listened to it on tape… but it took a few hours more than the drive from San Jose to L.A.!). Atlas Shrugged was grueling work to listen to, and I thoroughly hated it.
I wouldn’t worry about “conversion,” just use your brain and accept or reject Rand’s ideas on their merits or disadvantages. Or start another Rand thread…
Just read it, MarxBoy and see what you think. I enjoyed it and thought she made some interesting points, though I am by no means an Objectivist. But I’m not the kind of guy who’s desperate to become a follower of a line of philosophy. Most people can read a book like The Fountainhead, absorb the message of the book and decide if they agree, disagree, or find themselves somewhere in the middle.
I also think it’s ridiculous for somebody to tell you not to read a book because they don’t agree with the message. Anybody who’s afraid of you reading a message they don’t like is pretty insecure in their beliefs.
Don’t be afraid of books MB. They can’t hurt you. Even Rand. As has been said, “The Wizard didn’t give him anything he didn’t already have.”
As for “The Fountainhead,” I found it a pretty good read, and personally I liked it better than “Atlas Shrugged”. It is a bit more complexly written, but not a great deal so.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xekul * although I some problems with it, like its hero being a rapist.
One of my problems with her views on relationships. It sure seemed like rape to me, but Rand gives reasons why it wasn’t. Don’t ask me to explain, because I can’t.
That’s what Marxist regimes have historically always done, but that’s probably a discussion for another forum and topic. It’s also where Rand screwed up without realizing it. She kept insisting that people be individuals, while pretty much creating all of her heroes/heroines out of a cookie-cutter template. She kept insiting that people think for themselves, while telling them what to think.
But you, being a follower(I assume) of Marx’s works, would see that she stands for pretty much everything you’re against. I’d still recommed you reading it, although I’d go with Atlas Shrugged, my favorite. If you want something easy, go with Anthem. It shouldn’t take you very long, as it’s a very short story.
Before my old high school buddy read Rand and became a ranting, raving Objectivist, he had a brief flirtation with Marx. For a couple of months, he had been a ranting raving Marxist.
For what it’s worth, my view is that some people grab onto philisophies as if they were a sort of substitute religion. If you are that type of person, then I fully expect to see you back on the boards in a couple of weeks under the username Randboy or aynrandlover or some such.
I think The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are two of the greatest fantasies in the English language. I recommend them wholeheartedly.
On the other hand, it’s worth remembering something Jay Kinney once said about one of his own stories: “Warning: political pornography may be hazardous to your health”.
Hmm, I just thought of a possible non-political side effect of Atlas Shrugged- if you take it too seriously it might start you smoking. Hard to get those cigarettes with the little $ signs on 'em, though.
Reviving the thread, I was passing out Socialist Pamphlets today, (May Day) and I ended up talking to a guy who said he had been a Socialist until he read Ayn Rand, and she made him a Capitalist.
Books don’t have any magical powers that change people. People, however, often are primed to be changed, or especially vulnerable to certain kinds of persuasion. A great deal of Rand’s writing is deliberately persuasive, not to mention downright didactic, and frequently pure Rant. Personally, I enjoy good rant, and both The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged have very nice rants within them. (And yup, “This is John Galt speaking,” went on waaaay too long. An example of an editor being desperately needed.)
Since you like socialism, I wouldn’t doubt that you’ll have (overly) emotional reactions to the work. Probably not so much in the direction of conversion, though. See, Rand’s work can turn a person into an asshole in two ways–the first is the one that everyone immediately thinks of, where the reader (usually a fairly bright angry adolescent who seem the most susceptible, in my limited sample pool) ends up joining the Church of Rand, Brandon, and the Holy Galt in spirit, at least for a few weeks to months. The other type though, are the kind that become assholes about just haaaaaaating Rand, and anyone who dares mention that they (gasp) actually kind of enjoyed her work must be Randroid members of that selfsame Church. That’s a kind of conversion as well.
But, if you’re going to become na asshole, it’s hardly the book’s fault; if you don’t become one now you’ll turn into one down the line–so go ahead and read.
My take: Read Atlas Shrugged first. If you’re already a commie bastard, you probably won’t even be able to follow Atlas Shrugged’s story, it’ll be so ridiculous to you. You’ll end up being yet another Rand hater. My memory of The Fountainhead is fuzzier, but I can’t remember anything in it that you can’t get in a more interesting way from Atlas Shrugged.
My reasoning for preferring Atlast Shrugged is that it’s actually a somewhat interesting story which demonstrates a philosophy in a not terribly subtle way. The Fountainhead is a big stick you get whacked with repeatedly, and characters might as well begin every scene with a summary of the philosophy and exactly which part of it they’re about to portray. “THIS IS THE PHILOSOPHY. I AM THE BAD GUY. WATCH NOW AS I DO SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY STUPID AND TRANSPARENT SO THE GOOD GUY CAN PREVAIL.” Alright, maybe I’m being a little harsh, but that’s how I remember it.
Oh, and skip the 80 page monologue in Atlas Shrugged. It’s dullsville, and if you haven’t figured out the philosophy by then, it’s not going to help.
One thing you have to be prepared for if you’re going to read Rand, however, is some language which is a little, uh, extreme. As an example, let’s say a law is passed which says that a business owner is required to serve people he doesn’t like. Rand would refer to this as “slavery” of the business owner, because he’s compelled to do work he doesn’t want to do (regardless of getting paid for it, it’s against his will), and the people passing the laws would be “thieves”, because they are robbing him of his services, which he would like to use for other purposes (serving people he likes). It’s really easy for people to get turned off by this, and as I recall, there are many points in the stories where people are referred to using these terms, without spelling out why. The result is that unless you are already thinking in these terms and agree with the logic that leads to them (or are at least willing to entertain the ideas), Rand sounds like a bit of a lunatic. I’ve actually had people suggest to me that she applies the word “slavery” willy-nilly to random situations she doesn’t agree with.
