I keep hearing about this book, and how amazing it is. I am also told by people that as someone reads it you can watch them change, and not for the better. I really like the idea of reading something so powerful and effective on a person, but I also can’t see myself being objectivist.
Does this book really convert people? Can anyone share an experience from reading it themselves or having someone they know read it and watching them change?
Let me know what you think.
MarxBoy
“The prospect of copulation with a blind
heifer excited the younger boys almost
to a frenzy”
Um … it’s a work of fiction, buddy. Really, if you are convinced that such a work can “convert” its reader, you really should read it. It might help you to grow a sack and get friendlier with your ego.
Then again, I’ve read it. Maybe the fact that I’m such an asshole is all part of Ayn Rand’s grand mind control scheme that she still peddles from beyond the grave.
Maybe I’m trying to “convert” you.
Maybe you shouldn’t think for a moment that I have that kind of power over you.
A) I give this thread 10 responses before it ends up in GD or in the Pit. If it ends up in GD, I give it another 10 responses before it’s closed or banished to the Pit. There’s something about Rand’s writing that makes both sides psychotic.
B) No. I hated The Fountainhead. If you’re gonna read Rand, I strongly recommend you read Atlas Shrugged instead. Except for the interminable 80 (!!) page speech at the end, it’s a far better book, IMHO. (The premise: 90% of the people in the world are drones. They do what’s expected of them and nothing more. The remaining 10% are the movers and the shakers. The innovaters. And they’re all disappearing and the world is slowly grinding to a halt… The central mystery is: what’s happening to all of the innovaters?). Atlas has compelling characters (Dagney is, for the time it was written, an exceptionally strong female lead) a good mystery and a well-paced story (except for the 80 page speech at the end.)
C) I read her stuff. I wasn’t converted, but she did make me think. Rand has a number of ideas I like, a number of "Well, duh! :rolleyes: " ideas and some truly, utterly dumb ideas (The Fountainhead has a whole weird “You, woman, have tried to destroy my life’s work. I will, therefore kiss you passionately” thing going that creeps me out). Her whole take on the men/women thing is just bizarre. I doubt you’ll be converted, but reading Atlas Shrugged may give you some insights into how Goldwater/Reagan Republicans tend to think.
I’ll second Fenris’s recommendation of “Atlas Shrugged” over “The Fountainhead”. Of course, when I first picked it up (I was 17 at the time), I was blithely clueless about Rand’s philosophy and actually thought I was about to read an interesting novel about railroading. Talk about duh, squared.
That said, I wonder whether Rand’s books “convert” many people; rather, she perhaps states with clarity what some people already believe about society, but can’t fully articulate.
I will say that while it may be useful to familiarize oneself with Rand’s philosophy (at least as a way to better understand a certain conservative mindset), I personally find her lack of humanity and compassion to be utterly repugnant.
Fenris said it all (and frankly more than I can remember about the books). I read pretty much all of what she wrote during one phase. I enjoyed them as works of fiction. As works of philosophy, they left much to be desired. As life changing events? shrug. The Straight Dope was more of one, thanks.
I’ve not read Atlas yet, but I did read Fountainhead about six months ago and enjoyed it thoroughly. Did it change me significantly? I don’t think so, but I did take away a few ideas that I hadn’t considered before.
I expect that this would be the majority opinion about most philosophical sets–there are some good ideas, there are some blatantly obvious ideas, and there are some bad ideas–but which ideas fall into which categories is entirely subjective… That said, yea, certain aspects of the Howard/Dominique thing seemed really screwed up to me, too. I suspect it’s due to the fact that Howard is espoused as the ideal (essentially god-like) human, and therefore understands Dominque’s motivations better than even she does. (Rand has basically stated that her protagonists are her ideal people inserted into the real world–“romantic realism”.)
(IMHO) I thought the book was well-written–the characters were vibrant and memorable, the plot was engrossing, and many of the ideas were worthy of at least some consideration. I wouldn’t worry about becoming a cold-hearted bastard just because you read a book. If you are one already, well, it’s not going to help. If you aren’t one, I seriously doubt it will convince you to become one. If you are so inclined, read it (or Atlas, as I’ve heard that the books are quite similar) and find out for yourself.
Yes you should read it. I guess I’m one of the few who liked it MORE than Atlas. It will give you things to think about but unless you are prone to change it’s not gonna change you. Actually I usually go back and re-read her books every few years the stories are actually good even if you don’t agree with her.
Are you kidding me? Her characters are one dimensional puppets who just recite her rhetoric and “philosophy”.
But as to answer the OP, I went to high school with two boys who read Ayn Rand, and, yes, it changed them dramatically. My brother knows of a boy who, after reading Atlas Shrugged, “dropped out of life.” He’s been missing for a year and a half now.
But the thing is–is it the book that makes these people change, or is it their personality combined with circumstances in their life? The two boys I went to high school with were bizarre passionate artsy boys who were both going through some hard time in their life. I read three of Rand’s work, and my thoughts haven’t been influenced at all. Except through my intense hatred of her. But that’s two different debates right there.
Some 30+ years ago I had an idealistic college roommate who insisted that I read one of her books, IIRC it was Atlas Shrugged. I have very little recollection of the specifics of the book itself after all these years, but I remember very well my impressions of it because of the ensuing arguement(s).
I found many of the philosophical arguements superficially valid, i.e. they sounded good, and would be effective in the short term, especially if you defined ‘good and moral’ as ‘whatever is good for me and mine’. but my overall impression of the protagonists was that they were selfish, self-centered and short sighted jerks/assholes.
Since I had enough trouble quelling those tendencies in myself already, I decided to stick to my previous philosophy.
For what it’s worth, one of the tenets of my philosophy is that it is not in my long term best interest to do anything to harm society or the environment, even if I am able to make a huge profit from it and insulate myself from the effects of my actions. If Ms. Rand shared that idea, I don’t remember any mention of it in her book.
As usual, this sounded much more coherant in my head.
If you want me to elaborate, just ask.
/me wonders why being intrigued by Objectivism would make one an asshole?
/me shrugs and chalks it up to the usual reaction to Rand.
Seriously, Rand tends to evoke one of two reactions: love her or hate her. Which extends to her pet philosophy, Objectivism. Personally, I think she came up with some good ideas, but also some majorly misunderstood ideas.
It’s been my life experience that you won’t be changed by anything you read unless you are looking to be changed, either consciously or subconsciously. If you come upon something that seems to speak to you and fill a void or firmly bolster an already-existing tendency, you are ripe for change.
So maybe the question really is - are you ripe for change? If the answer is yes, it’s possible you could be changed by reading this book, or a book by another philosopher, or the Bible, or anything that feeds you what you feel you need. If the answer is no, you will most likely simply find it (possibly) an interesting and different viewpoint from what you may already have.
[digression] Funny I came upon this post, after just yesterday ordering a copy of Atlas Shrugged, for possibly the oddest reason a copy has ever been ordered. Now I’m more interested in reading it than ever. [/digression]
I read Anthem recently, and I haven’t changed because of it. However, it’s one of her less controversial books (unless, of course, you’re a Communist. Then I would say you should be offended). Still, I don’t care for it, and if it’s any indication of her other books, I’d say to stay away from 'em.
I neither love nor hate Ayn Rand. When I read The Fountainhead, i was 16, and I found it to be a mildly enjoyable book about architects and individuality. However, one of my friends read it and she hated it so much that it turned her off to architects forever (she had formerly wanted to be one). People are strange.
Stylistically, I think Rand had the same problem Heinlein often had. Her characters are paragons. They can do anything, be anything, change anything, fly anything, drive anything, shoot anything, make anything…ad nauseum.
I love Heinlein’s work, and I don’t hate Rand’s, but it’s usually despite the characters rather than because of them (with the exception of Lazarus Long…he’s the GOD!)
I went through my Randian phase senior year in high school/freshman year in college. I re-read Atlas Shrugged repeatedly, and also read Anthem and Fountainhead. It seemed the most logical philosophy and code of ethics I had ever come across.
And then I came to the realization Bumbazine did; Rand was a short-term thinker in the extreme.
I’ll agree with Sua that Rand’s philosophy is short-sighted.
However, her books do seem to have some weird power of “conversion” as the OP suggests. I know because one of my friends was “taken” in high school. One week he was a normal, reasonable guy, the next, he was a ranting and raving “objectivist” and Libertarian. Beware!!!
Atlas Shrugged is much easier reading if you’ve read The Fountainhead first, except for the This is John Galt Speaking chapter. Ayn, I got the idea in the first 5 pages. A is still A.
I like her stuff, and I remain a center leaning liberal. But if you’re the type that can be swayed easily, stay away from her.
And if you haven’t guessed, Anthem is my favorite short story.
Reading Rand won’t make you an asshole, but if you’re already one you might find some excuses.
I didn’t have much patience for The Fountainhead, but Atlas Shrugged remains an all-time favorite for me. Like many, I read it when I was seventeen, in the summer after my first year at college.
I was working in a boiler factory as a stainless steel welder and the crap my union leadman gave me led me to really appreciate Rand’s honor for the guys who are productive. My thinking toward modern union labor has been colored by that (and experience bears me out) ever since. The union can break a productive man and turn him into a suckler.
My appreciation for Rand comes even more after going to school in the Rust Belt (does anyone out West even know where Studebaker was headquartered?) and reading Michael Moore and Ben Hamper. Makes me want to go run my own blast furnaces.
I get a lot of “Rand is crap, look at her cardboard characters and misogynist relationships” from marxist types, who in my experience insist that having flaws makes her unimportant as a thinker. She’s imperfect, but very important. I keep a first printing of Atlas Shrugged on my bookshelf next to a copy of The Communist Manifesto I bought on Boston Common. Let 'em fight it out.
[/digression]
