By the time I was 14 I was making all my own medical decisions. Had I gotten pregnant, I never would’ve told my parents, entirely because they, like you, would be unable to separate their belief that it is always wrong and regrettable from what I believe. I knew then that I would do anything I had to in order to prevent them from finding out. I still think that’s the right decision, and I’m nowhere near my teenage years now.
There is no reason to assume that they are ‘equipped to handle the responsibility’ at all unless the only yardstick you use is whether they’d deny abortion. You don’t seem to have a problem with seeing a 16 year-old girl choose, on her own, to not have an abortion. You only want to make her a slave when her decision is not the one you agree with.
This isn’t about age, it’s about your morality being shoved on everyone else.
Well, if we really want it to be accurate, I guess we should also say that his parents are in no danger themselves, and instead of taking you to the hospital, they want to drive your car to the movies because they think you and the boy might regret going to the hospital.
Wow indeed. I think you’re the one who selectively read it: the article is long on details about the structures of the brain, but short on details about how that actually translates into behavioral or judgmental differences.
And when it does go into visible effects, quoting one group of researchers, it describes a difference of degree, not night and day: “teenage killers are less culpable for their crimes than their adult counterparts are”, “an anxious adolescent with a gun in a convenience store is more likely to perceive a threat”, “a neural basis for assuming that teens are less blameworthy for criminal acts [than] adults are”, etc. A film camera isn’t capable of taking as many pictures as a digital camera, but that doesn’t mean it can’t take pictures at all.
Furthermore, the “rebuttal” I cited wasn’t all there was, and you’re mischaracterizing it. Read the section “Immature data”, which is quite a bit longer than two sentences. Then compare the subject of that section with the sections above: this isn’t some “fair and balanced” article following up one set of claims with a set of contradictory claims and Letting You Decide™; the first parts of the article are mainly about specific physical differences, and that last section largely deals with how those physical differences don’t directly correlate with differences in behavior or judgment.
There are decisions and there are decisions. I’d like to see evidence that the level of immaturity that might cause a child to make poor split second decisions would also cause her to make a poor decision about ending or continuing a pregnancy, which can be thought out.
Being pregnant entails a high level of responsibility. Do you want someone not able to make that decision also make decisions about pre-natal care and diet? Or should the parents lock her up to make sure she doesn’t smoke or drink?
The consequences of a wrong decision vary also. Abortion returns her to the the status quo ante, while having a baby is disruptive for six - nine months at the least, if not forever. I think the real difference here is between those of us who see abortion as a regrettable surgical procedure, and those who consider it a sin and an abomination. The second group sees the consequences as being much worse than the first group.
Bullshit argument. You say that as though giving up one’s child for adoption is no more consequential than forgetting your shirt at the dry cleaner’s.
Keeping it or giving it up, going through with the pregnancy is a much, much heavier choice over the long haul of a life than aborting, for the majority of women. Others would find abortion more so, and they can opt to give birth if they like.
I always knew I did not want children, from the earliest age. But I also always knew that I could never bear to go through a pregnancy and give up the child. I only became pregnant once, and the abortion wasn’t the most fun thing I’ve ever gone through, but I’ve never regretted for a split second. If I had had it and kept it or given it up I would have been tortured one way or another my whole life.
All I said was that it was an option and it is. I have several friends that were almost aborted but their birth mother decided to give birth and allow another family to raise them. I myself was nearly aborted by my single mother but she decided not to and I was then adopted by her later husband.
Of course my anecdotes and yours have nothing to do with the discussion at hand, unless you were a minor when you had your abortion. I don’t think anyone here would disagree that any of the possible routes are not an easy choice to make and since they all involve major medical decisions, I do not believe a minor should be making them on their own.
Major surgery with potentially traumatic consequences, and a small (but relevant) risk of death? It’s not like people have abortions for fun, you know.
I knew a girl who had an abortion, and she sure found it a lot less consequential than she would’ve found giving away something that had been growing inside her for 9 months while she was being pumped full of mothery hormones.
No, that would just be a glib but pointless rejoinder when you have nothing better, after your analogy is shown to be weak.
This is really how you think the thesis of this article was carried out? Honestly? You think the gist of this article is, “Who really knows?” And when you say it’s not “fair and balanced,” what agenda do you think these scientists were serving?
That’s not what I said and I’m not going to bite. Apparently you didn’t read my post any more carefully than you read that article.
I was using that phrase, intentionally quoted, to sarcastically refer to the tendency of certain media to present one set of opinions, then a contradictory set of opinions, let the reader decide which one is more credible, and consider their job done. Sorry if that was confusing.
I don’t think there’s any agenda at work in the article, but it’s not a simple he-said-she-said and there’s no need to trust one group of researchers over the other: the people quoted in the last section aren’t disputing the physical differences, they’re pointing out that those physical differences don’t necessarily manifest in different behavior or judgment. Just like I’ve been doing.
Ah, you meant “adult obligation” as “obligation imposed by an adult”. I was interpreting it to mean “obligation which would require a level of maturity to carry out”. Under the former interpretation, you’re correct. If there are no impediments to abortion, then the girl’s decision whether to abort is not imposed by anyone else.
Incidentally, I agree wholeheartedly that better sex education would be a necessary condition for any plan to decrease the frequency of abortions. Also important would be to get rid of the social stigma attached to teen pregnancy, and to rectify the social injustices that lead women (adult or minor) to want abortions. All of these factors, I think, are much more important than any sort of legislation to stop or decrease abortions.
Er… now I’m confused. You’re the one who used that phrase.
Looking back, I think I see the problem. I originally wrote: “To require consent is to allow parents to force an 18 year obligation on their children, most of whom are in no position to raise kids anyway.”
I meant the obligation lasts for 18 years, not that it’s reserved for 18 year olds (adults).
Of course, there’s the possibility of giving the baby up for adoption and avoiding the 18 year obligation. And that brings up something that I don’t think has been addressed yet: those of you who believe her parents should make the abortion decision on her behalf, should they also be able to make the adoption decision? Can they force her to give her child up for adoption, or to keep it? It’s not a medical decision but it’s certainly still an important one, and one with a big potential for regret.
Just a note: framing this as a “medical” decision is disingenuous, at best. While there is certainly a medical component, that is not the driving issue at the heart of the decision, from anyone’s point of view, so equating it with other medical decisions is simply wrong.
And with that we have nothing further to discuss. I am approaching this particular debate as simply whether or not minors should be making their own medical decisions absent their legal guardians knowledge and consent.
I have no desire to get into a huge debate over abortion in general, so if that’s the direction this thread is taking I shall be bowing out.
I disagree. I think that it’s a little wonky because any decision requires forced medical treatment, and I am adamantly opposed to forced medical treatment as well as being opposed to denial of treatment.
You dont’ actually believe that the decision for an abortion, by anyone at any age, is primarily a medical decision, do you? Or even that the medical aspect of it is the most important or meaningful?