I was going to offer something harsh-spirited about there probably being hundreds of law enforcement depts willing to hire him, but then thought better of it. [/sarcasm]
Yes, I am a capitalist. I also believe that global communications and a history that can be documented and preserved forever and be easily accessed raises serious concerns about redemption.
Right to be forgotten - Wikipedia is not a bad idea. Now, of course, it does conflict with freedoms to publish etc. But at some point the concept of proportionality needs to be employed and mobs of people completely lack the capability of doing so.
Ahem! But yes, there are other jobs. that would be good for those with the…forceful?..personality. Bouncer at a bar? Great! Security for a dignitary? Yep! Bodyguard for a celebrity? Sure! I don’t think those traits are an automatic DQ for work.
It’s that situational aspect that matters. What is laudable and even necessary in one scenario may be totally inappropriate and forbidden in another. The player who dominates his opponent is awesome. And imagine parents, friends, family praising the kid for playing that hard-hitting game. But that same aggressive, dominant aspect of a player who punches out his fiancee in the elevator, not so much.
You already saw this, probably, and if you can’t watch domestic violence, skip this
At least one of the articles said Mitchell had been bullying this kid since second grade. (You are now entering spin city)
It wasn’t like an n bomb just slipped under Mitchell’s breath one day. I kept thinking of the Aaron Hernandez story, how if you traced it back, that bad bad behavior had gone on for years. Hell, he shot one man in the face before he killed another man. But because he was an athlete, for years people always seemed willing to overlook a lot of things. Ultimately, absent the normal checks and balances, he got worse.
Someone (probably a parent, maybe a school principal or counselor) should have taken Mitchell aside and figured out a better path for him out many years ago.
He had to have been playing youth hockey for a long while, why weren’t coaches doing some character building? Looking the other way keeps a ruthless player winning games for you?
not a mob
While the details of this particular case may be debatable, I don’t understand anyone who has a problem with the general concept. Time alone has never been enough for forgiveness or redemption. You have to show, at the very least, that you won’d do it again, that you’ve learned from it. And, if possible, you try to make some sort of restoration, be it to the individual or to society.
Jail or other legal punishments only at most cover the restoration aspect. And it only does that for the part that was illegal. Jail + time is not enough to show that the person is at less risk of doing it again.
And, as for the person being a child–that’s just an aid in the process. They get to argue that they’ve grown up since then. But you still need to show evidence.
Yes, there is an issue of ex-cons being unfairly mistreated. But the problem there is the prison system and that going there does not establish if the person is reformed, plus that there really isn’t a process for ex-cons to show this elsewhere. Thus, ex-cons in general are considered too high a risk, even if you were to pay them less. The issue is that we need a way to separate those who have reformed from those who haven’t.
So we’re still on an individual aspect here: has this kid reformed or hasn’t he? Any argument about the whole idea of seeing if he’s reformed is dead in the water–it doesn’t align with even how the people arguing it would act.
From what I see, he has not. He only did a court ordered apology, and then apologies to people who weren’t actually involved, in order to cover his ass. He’s not done anything like anti-bullying campaigns or trying to help the person he bullied. There’s just no evidence he’s learned anything beyond maybe “don’t let the bullying go so far as to be illegal”–or, at least, don’t get caught doing it.
Maybe Ohio’s juvenile procedures will shed some light
Relevant points are B and E. Miller was ordered to appear for adjudication based on a complaint. The word “charge” is not used. The fact that a complaint led to an adjudicatory procedure is not an implication of criminal guilt.
He’s not being denied earning a living. He’ll work again, maybe even play hockey. How is a young man aspiring to pro athletics, in the internet age NOT aware that character counts. And that pro sports is high profile enough to care about appearances?
The letter that the Meyer-Crothers’ mother sent to the Coyotes is now public.
Interesting comment in the Athletic article:
From the letter by Meyer-Crothers’ mother:
Are you aware two years ago he still taunted him?
So he didn’t learn from his mistake the first time. He continued to pick on a kid with a developmental age of 10, 2 years after he got punished for it the first time.
Much of the original police reports are here:
Pretty horrible. The offenders’ parents were also pieces of work.
Miller’s bullying was serious, prolonged, recent, and obviously racist in nature, and it appears he is still not genuinely remorseful for what he did - just eager to put it all behind him and play for the NHL. So to hell with him.
Correct. Guilt or innocence is (purposefully) not the issue in Ohio juvenile cases; it is whether the child is delinquent. Ohio juvenile court proceedings are intended to help bad kids change their ways and build a better life for themselves as adults; they are not intended, except in the most serious cases, to punish them as criminals.
I think that the real divide here is whether someone thinks that bullying is just “boys will be boys”, or a serious character flaw that should not be tolerated.
There have been some in this thread who have admitted to joining in in some name calling and bullying, and feeling remorse for that, but that’s not the same thing as leading it. It’s one thing to try to fit in, and to try to avoid being the target, and no one expects nobility or heroism from grade schoolers.
But the leaders, like this guy, he shows a lack of basic humanity. They are tormenting and torturing those that cannot fight back, those who are powerless against them. It is only the intervention of the legal system that gives and relief against them, and that is often not easily obtainable.
To me, he seems a sociopath, unable of empathy, and only willing to give others the bare minimum respect needed in order to get what he wants from them. He has not done anything since to disabuse me of this notion, as he has done the very least that the court ordered him to do to avoid more serious punishment, and seems to have even skirted those instructions as much as he could get away with.
He has shown no remorse, no regret for his actions, or how they harmed others, just annoyance that he is held accountable for them. If I were a coach of a manger, I would not hire him, and if I watched hockey, I would not watch this team.
How many here think Michael Vick shouldn’t have been allowed back into football? (Me) I think Vick and this kid should be allowed to try out, but prospective teams should also be aware that a certain segment of the population will do their best to make them pay for hiring scum.
If this was just youthful behavior, outgrown and regretted, that would be one thing. But since this is a long-term pattern of vile behavior, why should they put him on the ice? There are plenty of good hockey players who can fill his spot.
StG
Raises hand.
But, to be fair, there are quite a number of professional athletes that I think have had behaviors that should disqualify them from professional sports.
That many of them are not held accountable for their animal cruelty, or their domestic abuse, or their general felonious violence doesn’t, IMHO, make it okay to continue to condone such behavior by paying them enormous sums of money to play a game. It make it typical, but one of the reasons that I got turned off from professional sports in the first place is that such behavior is routinely ignored if the person in question has a talent for sportsball.
But have you seen his slapshot?
Would there be fewer fans if character were taken into account before talent? I don’t know. I don’t think so.
No that’s a penalty. They can hit him with their body though. 
I think it depends.
In general, I don’t think we can hold adolescent children to the same standard as an adult. I don’t think we can hold young adults to the same standard as more mature adults. There’s a growing body of research suggesting we don’t really become fully ‘adult’ until we’re in our mid 20s.
That doesn’t mean we tolerate bad behavior. There’s accountability at any age, and it seems like this kid was confronted and forced to do some level of self-examination. Whether it’s enough, I honestly don’t know enough of the particulars to know in his case.
I know I did stupid shit when I was younger. I was occasionally bullied, and if I’m being honest, I occasionally joined in group razzing or bullying if we want to label it. My sense of humor was sometimes pretty grossly irreverent. I’ve changed now. I know many who are the same. You’re just not the same person at 40 that you were at 14. But there’s accountability regardless of what age you are. If you’re 14, accountability can mean suspension from school or a juvi record and picking up trash on weekends. If you’re 40, the consequences for being a bad citizen should be more serious. But if someone grew out of being an a-hole, more power to them, as long as they understand that people live with scars for a long time whether they realize it or not and should accept that not everyone may forgive and forget.
I’m annoyed that people are not held accountable for this opinion.
If you want remorse and regret, you have put the offender in a place where he is not under attack. You can’t get remorse and regret from someone who is defensive, and you can’t get tears from someone facing a court. All you get is a stiff upper lip (aka a stony face), and gut-wrenching fear (aka stomach cramps), and self-destructive heroism (aka fight-or-flight).
I understand the desire to hurt people who have hurt others. I’m familiar with the common belief that it is an effective method of preventing crime. But the expectation that trial and punishment leaves room for remorse and regret is strange. It’s at odds with common experience. It’s not what happens here, in the minor bully pit of the SDMB, or out there, in the real world.
Curious, then, that the other boy who participated in the bullying did just that during the court proceedings, according to the bullied kid’s mom:
And see also the post from Elendil_s_Heir, who is very familiar with the Ohio court system: