I wouldn’t, but I’ve known people to slam his art as being “aesthetically bad” just because he’s evil, when they would probably be singing the praises of such paintings if they had been made by Mother Theresa. It’s artistic ad hominem.
Eh, could have picked a less unambiguous “opposite of Hitler” example than that evil woman.
Hitler’s painting were … OK. Bit Kinkade-y without the eternal hellfire of a genuine Kinkade, actually.
For me it is not a clear dividing line.
It would be nice to be principled, but the only way to be principled on this would be to take one of two extreme positions (either ignoring everything a creator does, or refusing to buy or enjoy anything even tangentially related to someone who has done something not particularly serious).
So my position is more nuanced (some would say self-serving…), and is based on lots of factors. Is it media I already own? Does the media itself allude in any way to abhorrent views? How serious is the wrongdoing of the artist, when was it, and have they apologized? etc etc
And that, of course, is a different kind of problem: it’s an issue with the art itself rather than with its creator.
…its still a problem with both because of the antisemitic aspects of the books.
The article (and most people using the same arguments) sounds like “Tell me you haven’t played the game without telling me that you haven’t played the game…” As I understand it (not having read the books), the goblins in the novels/films are just bankers. In the game, they’re represented as a whole regular group and you meet and assist goblin artists, tradesmen and farmers, in addition to them being miners and craftsmen and basically just regular guys. The people in game are cool with goblins being in their towns (even as the Bad Guy goblin is attacking people and disrupting trade, no one is “Oh shit, a goblin, I bet he’s plotting!”) . You talk to a bunch of people who are “We were living and trading with the goblins just fine until Ranrok started doing stuff”. Basically they’re represented as being differently-shaped people with some cultural differences and some world-lore about how goblins don’t use wand magic and humans don’t craft artifacts. The Bad Guy goblin isn’t even the sole Bad Guy – he’s one half of a team with the Bad Guy wizard who also wants to capture/kill you for your sweet ancient magical blood. The portrayal suggested in that article just isn’t there in game. Shit, even when you kill a goblin in combat, your character says stuff like “Pity that Ranrok led you to this” as though you’re actively not blaming goblinkind but acknowledging that they were misled by a single figure.
There’s other points like how the horn in game doesn’t actually look like a shofar and wouldn’t be painted. Or people trying to make a thing out of the use of the word gorganzola. For what it’s worth – very little – the couple friends I have who have been playing it the most are Jewish, are aware of the supposed “coding”, and think it’s largely nonsense and are enjoying the game. So I don’t have to worry about avoiding it on their account.
This as well. If you DO think the game is full of coded antisemitism then, absolutely, don’t buy or play it. But that’s a separate topic from “Can you enjoy works on their own merits if their creator/originator is problematic” Although, in this case, since Rowling didn’t even write the game it’s actually an implication that the development team at WB Games is full of antisemitic people making hate-games.
It certainly seems debatable to what extent antisemitism exists in the game.
FWIW:
Rowling has defenders in the Jewish community — even as some of them acknowledge antisemitic undertones to the goblins. She has repeatedly condemned antisemitism publicly, particularly among supporters of former British Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn.
Following Stewart’s comments, the UK’s Campaign Against Antisemitism said in a statement that “the portrayal of the goblins in the Harry Potter series is of a piece with their portrayal in Western literature as a whole” and “is a testament more to centuries of Christendom’s antisemitism than it is to malice by contemporary artists. So it is with JK Rowling, who has proven herself over recent years to be a tireless defender of the Jewish community.” SOURCE
Sure–they’re just a different race of hook-nosed people notable for their avarice and involvement in the financial industry, but who live alongside regular people. I can’t imagine why anyone sees any antisemitic tropes in Rowling’s depiction of them.
Again, not how they’re depicted in the game at all.
Edit: To clarify, “just bankers” means “The only times goblins are mentioned are in the context of the bank” not “Are regular ole bankers”. I haven’t read the books but, since the comments/link above is about the game and I HAVE played the game (and seem to be the only one in the thread to do so), I feel much more qualified to speak about their depiction in Hogwarts Legacy. Where none of them have expressed any avarice or greed (I suppose Bad Guy Goblin has typical story villain greed for power) and they’ve had or described a lot more roles than “bankers”.
There IS a goblin banker in the very beginning. He doesn’t do much more than see you have a key and let you into a vault and then gets mad at the Bad Guy Goblin for breaking the bank rules and gets zapped for it.
I get that. What I’m trying to say is that the source material’s antisemitic tropes are super in-your-face, and a game that’s based off this source material starts off suspect.
I appreciate that antisemitism, as with any prejudice, needs to be actively fought against. But I can’t help wondering how the goblins in HP could have been written to make them ‘immune’ from accusations of antisemitism? My recollection of the books and films is that the goblins are not portrayed of controlling the financial system, anyway - more that they enjoy the intrinsic value of treasure and are thus willing to act as its guardian. But the books acknowledge they have been victims of oppression by the wizarding world and seem sympathetic to that (similar to house elves).
It seems to me the Star of David symbol mentioned upthread was just an unfortunate coincidence, and the whole thing could be an example of people finding offence where none was intended.
Suspect, sure. But not guilty. And the people trying to pin “you support antisemitism if you play this” on the game are relying on stuff not in the game and/or stuff being taken for a real stretch and working backwards. For example, “the horn must be a shofar” only works if you start with “The goblins are Jewish stand-ins” since otherwise, in any other hands, it would just be a horn. There’s nothing innately shofar about it versus any other horn (and stuff decidedly not shofar) but if you’re looking for evidence to support the starting conclusion then there ya go.
Buuutttt… for all that, it remains that if someone comes to the conclusion that the game is some antisemitic propaganda piece then you of course shouldn’t buy or play it. I don’t see evidence for that conclusion though.
Top ten ways:
- Have the banks run by humans.
- Have the goblins in the book live in the forest and be monotheist mystics.
- Have goblins attending Hogwarts alongside humans.
- Have the banks run by earth elemental spirits.
- Have the goblins also run the film industry. Wait, no, scratch that, that would be the only way to make it more of a stereotype.
- Have the goblins have small little button noses.
- Have complex goblin characters, such as the goblin punk rocker or the goblin brewer or the goblin slacker.
- Don’t have goblins.
- Have goblins dabbling in muggle religions, so we meet like a goblin who regularly attends Lutheran church services as well as sitting for meditation at an Ashram.
- Have goblins be completely inhuman in the way that dementors are, except that instead of being dedicated to torment, they’re dedicated to theft, and aren’t really encountered outside of theft attempts.
Harry Potter with Kender? You monster.
No, they’re also artificers and gangsters.
…well, crap.
A fair effort, but I think most of those either would have lost a little richness in the fabric of the fantasy world (1, 8), or not eliminated accusations of antisemitism (2, 3, 6, 7, 9). A far simpler method is perhaps to not leap to conclusions (not directing this comment at you personally). I associate a hooked nose far more with goblins than with Jews. The whole thing seems like a huge leap to me. Anyway, I won’t post about it again in this thread as it’s a hijack, sorry.
Well, it wouldn’t exactly be the first time.
Back around 2005, I got my first job doing video game QA, and the first product I worked on was 25 to Life, a shitty attempt to cash in on Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas’s huge popularity at the time. The studio was Avalanche. I didn’t work for them directly - I was publisher QA, which meant I worked for the company that was bankrolling the game, not the studio making it.
It was an insanely racist game. Way more when it was in development than what actually got released, because we (being the money) made them change a bunch of it. The one that stands out to me, which did not make it into the retail version of the game, was a level where you’re trying to sneak through a bunch of tenement apartment buildings, while you’re being hunted by your former gang. Whenever you went into an apartment, in an explicitly majority-Black neighborhood, the apartments were filled, pack-rat style, with 40 ouncers and empty KFC buckets.
The game was filled with shit like that - overtly racist, and stuffed full of trademark violations. We actually had a separate bug database just to track all the brand names they were putting in the game without permission from the brand owners. Including Microsoft and Sony, who we kinda needed to okay the game so we could released it on their gaming platforms.
Anyway, that was fifteen years ago, and particularly given the turn-over in the game industry, probably no one who worked on that game at the time is still with the company. But fuck those guys anyway. Everyone else is talking about how they won’t play this game because JK Rowling sucks, and I’m here like a Giancarlo Esposito meme, not playing it because the dev studio sucks.
This is uncomfortably close to “the people noticing racism are the real racists.” It would be simpler not to notice antisemitic stereotypes, but it would also allow them to proliferate unchecked.
I’m not talking about eliminating accusations of antisemitism. I’m talking about eliminating antisemitic tropes. There’s a crucial difference.
I am very thankful that the world does not depend on you to keep knowledge alive. Your attitude is reprehensible.