That is different than “acceptance”.
If you read the OP you would see that is pretty much what I said.
But this seems perilously close to saying if you are not on my side you are the enemy. Sterling is drawing bright lines but I think this thread has shown there is a lot of gray area here.
…you may have “pretty much said that”: but I still don’t quite think you understand Stephs position.
It says exactly what it says.
Show me the lines of grey. After all of the discourse we’ve had over the last week, especially with the murder of Brianna Ghey and the reaction to that from Gender Critical activists in the UK, tell me why a Twitch streamer who streamed the game should still be considered an ally. Tell me why they should still be trusted. Tell me why they should still be given the time of day.
I honestly do not know what you are on about.
Has this come up in this thread at all before and I missed it?
How is it relevant? (really asking)
…Brianna Ghey was a 16 year old transgender girl who was murdered in the UK a few days ago. Trans people, especially in the UK, especially people like Steph, are taking that pretty hard.
And the Gender Critical movement in the UK of which Rowling is a figurehead, along with the media, are doing their best to be dicks about it, doing everything from misgendering her to doorknocking the poor mum.
And a discussion like this can’t ignore the wider context. Because people are angry, and people are scared, and what Steph is advocating here is orders of magnitude less significant than any of the things that are happening to trans people right now.
…I just wanted to add a bit more context here.
The way I see it: the really is just a matter of self-care.
Many trans people are stockpiling their medicines. Parents of trans kids are looking at having to move states. In the UK the death certificate is likely to have Brianna Ghey deadname on it, all thanks to loud and prolonged campaigning from the gender critical movement, with the most visible proponent being JK Rowling.
For most of us participating in this thread, this is a purely intellectual exercise. We argue with each other for a while, then we log off and go about our days.
But for Steph, and for the millions of other transgender people around the world, this is a nightmare with no end in sight. They can’t just log off from the discussion. They’ve got to live in this world that largely hates them and is trying to take away their rights.
So Stephs video served a couple of purposes. Firstly, it explained their position. But secondly, it let sent the message to trans people that it was okay to step away from this and look after yourselves. Not engaging with Potter content is as much about self-care than it is about not giving the streamers clicks.
So when you argue that “this seems perilously close to saying if you are not on my side you are the enemy”, I’m not really sure that anyone from the trans community would really care about this. Because they are exhausted. Day after day, hit after hit, it doesn’t seem to stop.
I’m only part-way through watching this: but here’s a video from Vera Wylde on the backlash she has experienced over this. For perspective on what trans people have experienced over this, it’s well worth a watch.
Probably not. Now if it’s content that I think is truly awful then I’ll wonder about or disdain them. But if the material is fairly mundane then, even though it comes from someone I’d personally never consume media from for ethical reasons, I’m not going to give someone else shit for consuming it.
The people I’m friends or close with know me well enough to not think poorly based off a book I read or movie I watch. If some random person wants to ‘judge’ me based on it… oh well. Of course, it’s pretty rare that a random person knows what media I’m consuming anyway.
Yes, if they’re ranting in their own personal soapbox, as Sterling was, that’s fine. If they followed you around at parties specifically to rant at you, that would not be OK.
Personally, I’m not going to be consuming any more HP media (haven’t seen the last Fantastic Beasts movie, for instance). I’m not cutting anyone out of my life who still does. But I am conveying my disappointment to them.
The direct relevance is that Rowling allies herself with these “Gender Critical Feminists.” No, she doesn’t participate in the violence herself, but she argues the rhetoric and stands up for the people who lead these movements. This is exactly the sort of thing that paying for the game supports.
This is exactly why I bristle at your framing of this issue. Framing with words like “disagree with” or “dislike” makes the whole thing sound harmless. Framing it as being about media consumption makes trans people seem like judgemental assholes who want to control what you’re allowed to like.
You say things like this:
That doesn’t need any answers. It’s obviously wrong to hate someone for the content they consume. But that isn’t what Steph or any other trans activist is arguing. The issue is not what you enjoy reading or watching or playing. It’s what you spend your money on.
The people who are otherwise pro-trans but bought Hogwarts Legacy want this to be about people judging them for the content they consume. That way they don’t have to feel guilty for giving money to Rowling. And the transphobes want the issue to be about content because it allows them to justify attacking trans people.
And that is the indirect connection with Ghey’s death. The people who attacked her felt justified because of the rhetoric they spread about trans people. GCFs frame the trans issue in certain ways to get people angry enough to harm people. It’s akin to how incels work.
Because you are willing to suppress knowledge, simply and solely because you disagree with some the other attitudes that the writer has.
Do you think Sterling would give a pass to someone who pirated but played the game? I don’t.
…two things:
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Steph has a pretty clear position on game piracy, so you could just look that up.
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It doesn’t really matter anyway, because Steph isn’t coming after people who play the game, and they have more important things to do than worry about what people do in the privacy of their own homes.
I’d think less of someone who pays to attend the new Cosby stand-up tour @Miller linked to, as I would also for anyone paying to see a new Kevin Spacey movie. I’d consider it a character flaw, but wouldn’t take it further than that unless they showed signs of condoning, or apologizing for their behavior.
Ok:
The Jimquisition: Pirates, admit you’re f*cking thieves
If there’s one thing that annoys about piracy, it’s the excuses. If you’re into piracy, whatever, but don’t try to dress it up as something it’s not. The flawed logic and the sense of entitlement is the thing that really annoys me, and that’s the subject of this week’s video. ~SOURCE
ISTM Sterling is distinctly calling out people who play the game.
…something more recent.
As I said: if you think that Steph gives a fuck about some random person pirating the game and playing it in the privacy of their own home then you completely missed what their video was all about.
Steph isn’t chasing down streamers who are playing the game. Steph isn’t trying to silence review sites that have covered the game. Steph isn’t giving “passes” because that isn’t even a thing that would worry them.
The scale of what they are facing right now is so huge that the idea that they would even devote a moment to caring about something this insignificant is laughable. Again: this is purely an intellectual exercise for us. But Steph is just out there right now posting about wrestling, posting about video games, and what they aren’t doing is hunting down people on the internet who dared to play the game.
A perfect example of moral relativism.
ISTM Sterling does care that the game (Hogwarts Legacy) is played by anyone. If someone plays the game they cannot be trusted as regards trans issues.
Which goes to the OP and later questions about judging people who consume art from someone you do not like.
To be clear: I am NOT defending Rowling’s bigotry.
…sure.
Not as much as it appears that you seem to care if the game is played by anyone.
Well, yeah.
The world is full of transphobes. The world is full of people who hate trans people. Most of them do it in secret. There is very little reason to trust anyone right now. Not unless they explicitly show their support.
So the person Steph would have no reason to trust some random person anyway.
Yeah, but there is nothing wrong with judging people.
First I’m hearing about it. I wouldn’t assume everyone knows.
So, I feel disgust at a sexual predator and choose to express that disgust by destroying the copies of his works that I own, and you select the latter part to criticize? Only on the Dope!
I’m happy that I don’t have to consult you for other things I do in life that don’t affect people outside my home.
I feel inspired: tomorrow is trash day, so perhaps I can be rid of those unwanted books once and for all!
I thought of that, but I also thought: couldn’t you say the same for lots of other people who were “deeply connected to making the films”? Shouldn’t we also hold the director, producers, costume and makeup designers, etc. to the same standard?