Excellent point which I hadn’t considered.
Yes, that would be a good idea if it weren’t a little belated. You might have noticed (but clearly haven’t) that I haven’t defended him for quite a while. And I wouldn’t be handing this hostage to fortune were that not the case. But do go check.
The only prints on the knife in the outlined events are Trump’s. There is no impeachment vote or even impeachment proceedings. Trump resigns when it looks like Republicans are starting to turn against him.
But that can’t happen until both Ryan and McConnell can count enough noses to tell him that the jig is up.
Which will happen when a bunch of those noses are actively running against him for president.
You are correct in many ways. Pence is even more conservative, and nobody’s fool for sure.
One other thing to consider. The press and unfair politics is the best way to bring out the opposing party on election day.
I expect the Dems to lose 3-5 seats in the Senate.
We may have a chicken and egg thing going here. He won’t be challenged in the primaries unless he is circling the drain and he won’t circle the drain unless he gets challenged in the primaries.
Republicans will be quietly and not so quietly preparing their primary campaigns early in 2019. Hell, John Kasich just held an event in New Hampshire on April 27, 2017. They will want to be in position to run a campaign in the event that a primary happens.
It will be like a game of chicken where no one will want to be the first to officially announce, but a bunch of them will be ready to go. Then all it takes one event that exposes some Trump weakness for some Republican without much to lose to cross that line. If that individual gains any traction at all, the clown car rapidly fills up again.
It happens when their base turns on them.
They think that they are representing their base with their “ideological principles”, but really, the majority of the base just wants a peaceful life, with a good job, and not to stress about healthcare.
Democrats in 2008 tried to address these issues, but did not make nearly as much headway on them as would have been desired. The opinion held by many on the left that this was caused by republican obstructionism doesn’t’ matter. They are not looking for excuses, just results.
This is the same cohort who turned from the democrats, because they were not addressing the problems that were central to their lives, basically the economy and healthcare.
With the republicans not even trying to address these concerns, and in fact, in many cases, pointing out that these are not concerns of theirs at all, the cohort that the republicans have been riding the last few cycles will realize that republicans do not have their best interests at heart, and will stop supporting them. Trump got support from these people by lying to them, and promising them a better future than the other candidates promised. It is hard not to support a promise of a better future, but as they realize that they were lied to, and that the better future they were promised isn’t just not coming, but that trump had no intention of delivering it in the first place, they will turn on him.
It does not matter the news source that people subscribe to, people have not been voting on the news, they have been voting on their wallets and on their fears for their future, and the future of their children, these are things that are in their lives, not something that comes from the news to be faked. It did not matter how eloquently democrats tried to explain that they were doing their best to be working on the problems, but were being obstructed by the republicans, it only mattered that they had problems that were not being addressed, which made them vote for the other guy. The people are not all that well informed, and to be honest it is not easy to tell what sources of information to trust these days anymore, but they aren’t stupid. They can look around their own life, and see if it has gotten better or worse. They may misattribute come correlations between politics and their personal situation, causing them to blame some republicans for their woes that were not responsible, but that’s okay, they did it to the democrats too, a few cycles ago.
The Donaldians are immune from reason. They could lose their Medicare and Social Security and get tossed out in the street without health care and if a Republican says: “Benghazi! Email! Obamacare!” they will shit their pants and line up to pull the R levers on their voting machines.
True, this is a fraction of the party. But they vote in unison. And if their Republican rep votes to impeach, they will burn with the brilliance of a thousand suns and primary that rep right out of his seat.
Depends on how much real power the man-child is determined to use. I think there’s a good case that Pence is already really running the show, with systems and people in place to keep the toddler from grabbing the hammer, or the nuke codes, in between the daily embarrassments and walkbacks. Remember Trump playing golf while Pence went to the NATO summit, for instance? No, I think Acting President Pence is hobbled by Trump’s continued presence, limiting the damage Pence can do, and there’s value in that regard in keeping the situation as is.
The reasons for wanting Trump gone are, to me, more based on the damage he’s doing to our image both abroad and at home, not on tangible damage he’s doing to our government and society. Pence *could *do that if he had the time and fuller freedom of action. The OP might wish to reconsider his concerns.
Okay, I checked. I didn’t have far to go. In this thread you paid a little lip service to how bad Trump was. But your proposed response?
Once again, there is no impeachment vote or even the initiation of impeachment proceedings in my scenario. My scenario is very unlikely for many many reasons, but Republicans facing repercussions for their impeachment votes is not among those reasons.
When the republicans in more moderate areas start getting calls from the people who voted for them, threatening to either vote for their primary challenger, or even for the democrat, if they don’t get their shit straight, those republicans will wise up.
There are plenty of republicans in deep red states and districts that do not need to listen to their constituency, as for now at least, they are reliable republican voters, but we also have quite a number in more vulnerable states and districts who may realize that putting country before party is the way to stay in office.
If they don’t, then more moderate republicans can see this as a sign to run against the radicals in the primary.
Sometimes I wonder just how much these people would have to suffer at the hands of the republican congress to change their outlook. Then I want to give them exactly that much suffering.
Some will change their outlook at the first sign of trouble in the republican administration. I think that healthcare will be a big part of it. If the republicans actually manage to pass a bill that improves conditions for the voters, then they will be rewarded. If the republicans manage to force their current idea of healthcare through, then the people affected, many of the republican voters, will have an up close look at the results of the policies that they voted for. I think this will sway enough republican voters to the progressive side to ensure democratic victories for the next few cycles.
To get all the republicans on your side though, would require a much greater level of suffering for the entire country, and they are more likely to try to push for legislation that makes others suffer more, rather than alleviating their own suffering, if it would mean that someone else isn’t suffering enough.
Yes. He’s intelligent. He might not be moderate, but he is at least moderate within the party and his interests lie more in numbers than religion. Of Republicans to have be President, he wouldn’t be my first choice, but compared to Trump or Pence, he’d do in a pinch.
I think Trump is horribly troublesome because of his (apparent) lack of respect for many basic US principles. Such as an (ostensibly) independent judiciary. Not (excessively/immediately) profiting from your elected/appointed office. At least superficial support for inclusiveness and protection against the tyranny of the majority. Checks and balances. That sorta thing.
What I’m curious about is how far other - such as Repubs in Congress - will support him because it allows them to advance their agenda, or whether there is a point at which they will be forced to act to uphold basic democratic values.
It’s a spectrum. Some of the republicans are already opposing him, and more may follow. Some republicans will never give up their support for party over country.
We just have to hope that there are enough that do.
As Little Nemo said, if you’re trying to go cold-turkey on defending Trump, you’re not doing great :). But I laud the intention and hope you can get it to stick next time. My advice, take or leave it, is that you not start threads arguing why Democrats ought to try to keep Trump in power, if you’re trying not to defend the man.