Should the Government withhold information?

Great Debates
1

(The question pertains to the US government, but feel free to discuss your own government in lieu of the US)
The other night, reeder and I were discussing the following article: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010608/ts/crime_spying_dc_1.html

The man who runs the James Madison Project, “a public interest group that aims to reduce secrecy in government”, is filing a lawsuit to force the government to open the file on invisible ink. At present, this document is not declassified and, as such, is not eligible to be opened under the Freedom of Information Act (which allows us to read declassified documents). Mr. Zaid maintains that because invisible ink is not being used (to his knowledge) and is technologically antiquated, that it should be declassified and he should be given permission to read it.
These papers date back to 1917.

The discussion reeder and I had was this: Should the government allow the citizens to read ANY document they wish, or should some part of the government decide who should read what document.

My position is that some documents, if read by the wrong people, could possibly cause deaths. For example, there is a retired colonel who is being tried for espionage now who routinely gave sensitive material to the Soviets. Some of the documents he gave them were from his debriefing of people who defected. There isn’t any indication whether or not the families of these people, or the people themselves, were ever harmed, but it could have happened. What if one of these documents someone opens under the Freedom of Information Act causes someone to be killed? I think that someone needs to make a determination which material to declassify and which to keep classified and out of reach of any citizen who asks for it.

What’s your view?

2

The govt is a stickler for classifying documents. All documents are classified. They range from “for govt use only” all the way up to “mega-death, ultra top-secret, don’t look or we will have to send the squad to take ya out”. Okay, I exaggerated the last one, but you get the idea. To view documents you have to have 2 things, the proper clearance for the level of the document, and the need to know. In other words, you can have a TS-SCI clearance, and still not be allowed to view documents which are in your range, because they do not pertain to anything you might be working on or involved with. You do not have the need to know. At some point many documents become declassified. Some things stay classified a lot longer than others, depending on how much harm the govt thinks these documents can cause. I find the system works fairly well, although they do get a bit anal about certain things, and keep them classified well beyond any danger zone. The problem with doing this is that it makes people wonder just what the govt is hiding in those documents. It makes the rabble edgey. Hell, most of the stuff in many classified documents is extremely boring stuff that very few people would even be remotely interested in anyway. And some things are just best left unknown. But for the most part, documents that are that old should become public record. If nothing else, its great stuff for research papers.

3

IMO, it should be mandatory that all classified documents be considered for declassification after a certain time, say 20 or 30 years. Given the pace of technology, it is highly improbable that the government would need to keep much of anything secret for longer than that.

4

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree. 50+ years ago, the Manhattan Project built several atomic devices. By today’s technological standards, they are relatively amateur and completely obsolete. Hell, we didn’t even have the means to deliver the weapon without human intervention until the 50s. I don’t propose we declassify the documents of ballistic missiles either. . .

My main concern is greed. With as many knuckleheads that are out there with half a mind to “experiment” on their own with technology like this, I think it is a far better thing to keep some things forever out of the hands of those without “the need to know”.

And believe me, if I ever get all 11 herbs and spices to KFC, I’d keep it to myself too! :smiley:

Tripler
Because I don’t want my backyard bombed.

5

The standard should be that after ~30 years all documents are declassified unless the agency responsible for them can convince a judge that they are important enough to remain secret. The default assumption should be that these documents belong to the people and therefore the people should have access to them.

Some documents must be kept secret…people in the witness protection program, blueprints for the stealth bomber, the president’s exact travel plans. But I would bet that 90% of all secret classifications are unneccessary and just done to make some beauracrat feel warm and fuzzy inside.

6

That’s why I said “considered for declassification”, not simply declassified.

7

I am strongly in favor of the concept of keeping information secret when the release of that information would be detrimental to the nation, or to the people who serve in the defense of our security, both military and police functions. I also think technological information that would pose a danger to the world at large should be well protected from release in our rapid dissemination information world.

However, these are not the only reason that secrets are kept. Some matters are kept secret because government officials, or departments, or office holders would be embarrassed, or possibly held to legal penalties if they became known. The fact is that most of the very old classified information falls into this category, and many of our secrets are kept to keep us from knowing how dishonest, banal, and plain stupid our government servants have been in some times and places.

I think that should be a crime. I think the statute of limitations should not apply to the crime, and I think the punishment should be harsh enough to bring cold shivers to those who decide to classify, or review classification of such matters. Twenty years, plus one year for each year that the secret was kept sounds about right. This population is informed and intelligent. The concept of deterrence should work well. I also think that posthumous conviction should be allowed as well. Politicians think in terms of their place in history, and that would matter to them.

There is another matter, the matter of a guardian for the public interest. The concept of the “need to know” is critical for workable security to exist. I know that. There needs to be one person who has authority over the process of classification. The could be selected from a list provided by the House of Representatives, appointed for life by the President, approved by the Senate, and sworn to duty by the Supreme Court, and removable from office only by impeachment and trial by the House and Senate respectively.

The person holding that office would keep all state secrets which they learn, but would have an absolute “need to know” every classified, or unclassified fact available to the United States Government. Prosecution for false classification would be their major responsibility. Investigation of such matters would allow them to have access to all government documents. All government employees would have access to secure communication with that person, as well.

Tris

“Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.” ~ John Milton ~

“I must inform you that the position for which you have applied is already filled. A suitable alternate position will be assigned.” ~ Satan ~

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RoboDude *
**

Duly noted. . .

But I submit this: In order for a document to be “considered” for declassification, doesn’t that original document have to be shown to a judging party? Can the document’s original author be considered a neutral “judging party”? I personally don’t think so, and by showing or even hinting at the contents of a document, the “judging party” is apt to know sensitive information that could hypothetically be gravely damaging to the nation. Thus, a classified document is de-classified to some extent by the mere consideration.

Prime example: I, LT Tripler, develop plans for the Flux Capacitor. The Flux Capacitor makes time travel possbile, which we all sorta realize would be gravely dangerous in the wrong hands. 30 years from now, when I am General Tripler, the document comes to review. Is it fair that I am the sole judge of whether or not I consider this for declassification? In the public’s eyes no, because I am some mad scientist who develops this for the military industrial complex. Therefore it goes to a federal judge who is not cleared for this level of secrecy . . . Wierd, ain’t it?

This actually does concern me. I do see the point of government coverups, and fully agree that a documents not of a military or technological nature should readily considered. But at what point do we consider breaking secrecy to “consider”?

Tripler
Jeez, I’m just a pain in the ass tonight. :smiley: