There are plenty of Atheists in divinity schools. They may have an academic interest in religion, they may see religion as valuable even if it is not literally true, they may appreciate the church as a structure for social change or moral guidance, they may have spiritual beliefs that aren’t reliant on a personified God (like many Buddhists), they may be seeking meaning in general, or they may have been believers at one time and have lost their faith along the way.
You know that secular Jews are a thing, right? They value the traditions, community, philosophies and world views of their faith without necessarily believing in an interventionist God. Well, you don’t have to be Jewish to have that outlook.
From what I vaguely recall of a story I heard ages ago on military chaplains, the salient reason for their existence is a combination of the two of these; to wit, to reassure soldiers, sailors, etc. that “God is okay with you killing people in the service of your country”.
Only a Catholic priest (or bishop) can consecrate the Eucharist*, but it is allowed for non-priests to distribute the Eucharist. However, in the military situation, I think that would be done by some senior or appointed person from the laity rather then trying to grab some Baptist minister to sub for the priest.
That’s considered an extraordinary situation, though. Something one might expect on the battlefield. At a military base, one would expect to go to mass given by an ordained Catholic Priest, regardless of how much of a fuck Bryan Eckers gives about that.
*There are some exceptions for certain other sects… I think an Orthodox priest is still considered eligible and perhaps an Anglican priest, but not just any old random Christian minister.
For bases in the US, I suspect it’s less of a big deal; presumably soldiers can go to religious services in town at the local whatever church.
Overseas and on shipboard it may not be possible for there to be a faith leader of every denomination. Today, I suspect they might use videoconferencing for the services.
I’ve given this same opinion elsewhere, but I’ll repeat it anyway.
There are really only two things a chaplain can do: perform religious rituals for servicemen who want them, or offer personal/emotional/psychological guidance.
Obviously, a non-religious serviceman has no need for the rituals.
So, what about counseling? Surely there are atheist Marines who suffer from PTSD. Surely, there are atheist sailors who are having marital problems. Surely, there are atheist pilots suffering from burnout. Surely, there are atheist soldiers who suffer from survivor’s guilt. Aren’t THEY entitled to cousneling and solace?
Of COURSE they are. And all of those guys can easily see a doctor, a psychiatrist, or some kind of wholly secular therapist. The military will provide access to such people free of charge.
So, my reaction to the idea of an atheist chaplain is not anger, indignance, or laughter- it’s confusion. What could he or she possibly offer that’s not already available?
If churches are readily available(and if not physical churches, then on-line services) what could the other chaplains offer that is not readily available?
If they ever do, I’d send a resume. Easiest job in the world. “So, uh, the situation’s pretty fucked, huh guys ? Sucks, but whatayagonnado, this piece of shit life is all we’ve got. Let us now celebrate the sacrament of All The Vodka, brothers.”
For practical purposes, I’m good with a significant basis requirement. I’d guess there are enough atheists in the military to meet this requirement. Haven’t seen actual statistics.
(I know anecdotally that there are at least a few atheists in the military who haven’t declared themselves atheists out of concern for reprisals. One in particular changed his registered faith after he was put on janitorial duty every Sunday as punishment for not going to chapel.)
That’s actually easy: many atheists still accept the notion of “spiritual needs.” They don’t use the term in a theological sense, but a material sense. We have spiritual needs the same way we have emotional needs.
Yes, on 14th Amendment grounds. Favoring some and denying others violates equal protection.
I don’t agree that atheism isn’t a religion, or at least, a religious stance. I also think black is a color, bald is a hair style, zero is a number, and anarchism is a political theory. If atheism isn’t a religion then employers could use that logic to discriminate against atheists without running afoul of religious workplace discrimination laws.
Different definitional spheres. Atheism is not a religion when you’re talking theology. Atheism is a religion when you’re talking the First and Fourteenth Amendments.
If psychologists are readily available (and if not physical psychologists, then on-line services) what could the other psychologists offer that is not readily available?
Guess there is no need for counselors or psychologists being on military staff, since the troops could just get counseling from on-line sources :rolleyes:
This is the question I have? What is the problem that is trying to be solved? Secular counseling for atheist military troops. THAT already exists. What’s the compelling argument to make a change to the chaplains?
And why the hell is atheist spelled with the ‘e’ before the ‘i’??? I get it wrong every time!
Yes, i just read that article, and it offers nothing in the way of showing that atheist chaplains in the military could offer more than a regular psychologist or counselor.
And if you feel so strongly that chaplains don’t belong in the military because the troops could get spiritual guidance online, why would you be for additional chaplains that would serve no greater good than a troop could get on-line?
I’m not sure how I could put it any different - chaplains offer spiritual guidance in addition to secular guidance. Why would an atheist need spiritual guidance? They only need secular guidance, something that is already offered by other professions in the military.
What’s the MOS for “person who gets in a foxhole”?
Catholic church already has a solution for this, because deacons are a thing (I had to do a few turns at serving the midweek mass as a kid, most days they let the priest sleep in) A deacon can do all parts of a mass except the consecration (read, preach, sermonize, distribute, hopefully only sing if they have a good voice). So, on Sunday the priest consecrates extra stuff, and the deacon grabs from that stash. That’s also what they do for laypeople ministering to shutins etc. Or, the deacon just skips that part of the ritual. I don’t see a reason why a Rabbi couldn’t do that.
Judging from the SDMB, I can imagine how it would go:
Soldier: Father, I…
Atheist: I’m NOT your “father”.
Soldier: Um…ok. Rabbi? Your excellency? High Poobah?
Atheist: You may refer to me by my correct title “Bright” as proposed by Richard Dawkins to distinguish us from you superstition-laden knuckle draggers.
Soldier: Ok, your Brightness. I’m having trouble reconciling the fact that I’m defending my country by killing enemy soldiers, but the Bible says “Thou shalt not kill.”
Atheist: :rolleyes: First, why do you care what your invisible sky-pixie says? It’s as stupid as worrying about rules created by a flying spaghetti monster. Do you care what rules a flying spaghetti monster says? :rolleyes:
Soldier: I don’t know that’s this is helpful. I’m worried that I’m putting my eternal soul at risk, but I still feel a duty to serve my country.
Atheist: You don’t have a soul. You’re born, you live, you die. You don’t have to care what delusional ideas an invisible pink unicorn is telling you. Don’t be dumb.
Soldier: I’m having a real spiritual crisis here…
Atheist: No you’re not. There’s no such thing as spirits. There’s only the material world and delusional thinking.
