Indeed, because the only possible objection to going to Iraq other than fear of death. Every single person unwilling to go there is scared. It is inconceivable that they might have another reason, such as objecting to the war on principle. Cowardice is their only possible motivation.
That is a point of view that some people have, certainly. It’s not one that I’ve ever been particularly sympathetic to. From my point of view, most army jobs require some sort of participation in killing, or at least helping killers to perform. To a greater or lesser extent, depending on the job.
Look at it this way. There have been a huge number of people convicted for murder, who are of the opinion that they didn’t kill anyone: I just drove the getaway car. My partner is the one who shot the guy. I wasn’t even armed. I’m not a killer, my partner is. From their point of view they are not killers. Other people have a different point of view, and hold the driver responsible. Unfortunately for the driver, the judge and the jury usually holds the second point of view.
Military people who claim I’m not a killer usually seem to me to be making the same justification. In my opinion a counselor who assists soldiers to deal with killing is partly responsible for the killing.
Do you really have to hijack this thread?
Look, Pete, I would love to live in this fantasy world that you live in where no one is ever killed. On second thought, no, I would not. If someone threatened your life, I would hope that I could help you. If you found yourself in a self defense situation, even to the point where you would have to kill your attacker, I would hope that I could help you process the event. I feel good about what I do. Do you? Really, do you feel that you are a better man for trying to make me out to be a bad person for helping people do what must be done?
The ONLY reason that some people can be pacifists is because others aren’t.
If you had a nation composed entirely of pacifists then very soon it and its people would soon be the property of a nation of non pacifists.
Sorry for the Hi jack.
I’m not going to argue this point in the pit, I’ll stick to a forum with civilised dialogue.
The culprits in war are the politicians? Yeah, I agree with that. But the soldiers are the culprits too. Men like Shwartz who will join fights just as a career option, without caring about the rights and wrongs of it, those people are to blame too.
And by the way, what makes you think I’m a pacifist? If someone was to invade my country, I’d be willing to fight and kill them. I’m just not willing to participate in an unjust fight for career advancement.
So, if you want to follow IMHO rules, do so in IMHO. Start another thread if you want.
I’m not going to participate in your pit thread. If you insist on the pit, then you are unable to make your point under IMHO rules, and are not worth talking to.
To answer the OP, I think that, if they would take him, the army could be a good thing for this kid.
It sounds to me like his mom is being a bit too much of a mom here. Of course she doesn’t want her pwecious widdle baby to face the harsh realities of the world.
That’s how she wound up with a 23 year old who still lives with mom and doesn’t know how to hold down a job.
It sounds like this kid WANTS to grow up, and is just trying to figure out how to do it. I think the military would definitely help him grow up and get better opportunities in life.
Well, I think the level and amount of orders differ greatly between military and civilian life, but I admit I don’t have personal knowledge of current life in the US Army once a person has progressed beyond boot camp/basic training /low-level start job.
In normal civilian jobs (and while in US culture, lot more intrusive orders regarding personal habits/appearance seem to be accepted than over here), I accept a certain job when I sign the contract (shake hands), and my boss doesn’t have to enforce discipline for split-second automatic obeyance. I’d say except for some high-level qualified and special civilian jobs (which this kid is unlikely to qualify for currently) most civilian jobs don’t require that, unlike the Army, which trains people to obey automatically because they need that instinct in battle.
The basic job of the Army (any Army) is to kill other soldiers. Yes, there are support jobs, but these still enable the killing itself. Also, you don’t have a guarantee that you won’t be transferred from being a truck driver to going around on patrol shooting people.
As for the general idea of the US Army, it’S mostly from news reports about how the US soldiers behave, and from reports and interviews with soldiers.
Well, I don’t have detailed knowledge and info about the US programs, but about German programs. I just supposed there would be some kind of similar programs, even though I don’t know the exact names of which program does what and accepts whom.
But that’s what he should and is willing to try to learn, right?
Well, I don’t have detailed knowledge and info about the US programs, but about German programs. I just supposed there would be some kind of similar programs, even though I don’t know the exact names of which program does what and accepts whom.
JobCorps is designed for people like the kid in the OP. Not Peace Corps. Not the SCA. Not even really Americorps. All those programs are for people who are already educated, responsible adults.
He needs to get cleaned up and get a GED, first of all. There’s no reason other people should waste good money and good jobs on this kid until then.
Regarding the asthma, bear in mind that all we know about it is the mother’s say-so. She could be saying “asthma” as a form of denial of the kid’s smoking habits.
And all asthma is not created equal. When I enlisted I would cough and wheeze for 30 minutes after running only a quarter mile just because I was in pisspoor shape. 2 months later I was knocking out 2 miles in under 14 minutes and fully recovered after a minute or two of breathing hard.
Yeah, actually, you do. We train all Soldiers to defend themselves. We also train all Soldiers in their job, which the Soldier has chosen. The Army does not waste that time that has been spent training someone in a job to make the person go around on patrol shooting people unless that is a part of the job description. I still don’t understand why people would think otherwise.