His SS detail might pull an Epstein Coffee Break at a convenient moment.
## Trump calls on GOP state legislatures to overturn election results
It was pointed out that when Sen Graham did this, it was a Felony. Thereby trump just committed several felonies.
Remember Caligula and Cassius Chaerea.
This is neither the time nor the place to discuss WWE shenanigans.
J/k
Did he?
Make no mistake…I hate Trump. But is just saying you want to overturn an election a crime?
Really asking.
I can see it argued both ways
Would that fall under sedition? Some sort of tampering with an election? Fraud? All of the above?
The argument is that Graham violated Georgia election law by trying to persuade the Raff guy to throw out valid ballots. Graham denies that he was trying to do so, he was jsut inquiring about how the process worked for ballots that were received after the election day. Whether that was an offence would depend on the evidence, and it sounds like there were only three witnesses: Graham, the Raff guy, and a staffer from the Raff guy’s office who was on the call.
But, key point is that the allegation is that Graham breached Georgia state law, not federal law, so that doesn’t track immediately to whatever Trump did.
As for Trump, he didn’t do anything in Michigan. He got the two Michigan guys to come to DC and there apparently tried to persuade the two Michigan guys to use the Legislature’s power to select its own slate, it would appear. Is that a violation of Michigan electoral law? Does Michigan electoral law apply to attempts at persuasion in DC? Does arguing that the Constitution gives the Michigan legislature the power to select its own slate, regardless of the outcome of the popular election, violate Michigan or federal law?
Dunno.
Well would you look at that?
“The decision to lift his travel restrictions is being seen as a parting gift to the Israelis from the Trump administration”
The Justice Department makes an unprecedented decision to remove travel restrictions on a traitor. I wonder why that was important to do right now of all times?
Look, I’m not a fan of Pollard, but he served his time (also, he was never a military officer). There’s no way he still knows any secret information. Let the man go.
Correct. The Supreme Court changed the case law regarding extradition in 1987, and It can change again.
The Roberts court isn’t, I think, loyal enough to the GOP to overturn the 2020 election results. But I predict they would be loyal enough to prevent the humiliation of having a prior GOP president in prison.
As to how they could look themselves in the face the next morning - easy. They just saved a Democrat from getting the same treatment down the road.
No way the feds ignore the self-pardon.
No way DJT could be extradited from Florida to New York.
And no way, if it got that far, which it will not, that you get a jury without a single Trumper.
It’s in the nature of the President job that he or she will violate some of the vast number of laws we have in this country. I totally get that Trump is unique in violating laws so carelessly and frequently. But going after him is, to use a technical term, a fool’s errand.
It may be very unpleasant and messy, but yes, an example must be made.
This is not merely distaste for the person or disagreement over policy, this is fundamentally supporting the rule of law.
Prosecute him. My vindictive side says I’d love to see him in an orange prison jumpsuit, but my rational side says a prosecution with fines and a suspended sentence would be adequate.
The next would be authoritarian ruler who comes along might not be as obviously flawed as Trump. We narrowly escaped this time. Hopefully the lesson will be taken to heart by all future presidents.
No, it would be like fining big corporations for violating the law. It would be seen as a cost of doing business. Only a fine big enough to put Trump in the street would work, and that is unlikely.
We’re talking NY here. Keep people from Staten Island off the jury, and you’d be fine.
If someone shot Trump on 5th Avenue, chances are you’d never find a jury to convict. It would be an ironic end to him.
I admit I can’t be absolutely certain a Trumper would always slip onto the jury. But I think there are so many ways that Trump can beat the rap that one of them would come through.
One historical footnote, for those who think that putting one more crooked politician in prison would discourage future miscreants: Hitler wrote Mein Kampf when in jail for trying to overthrow the government… Yes, I know, Trump uses ghost writers, but history never repeats itself exactly.
Prison is not a good deterent to crime. Just because we don’t like the accused won’t change that. Doesn’t mean we can totally empty prisons, but the idea that a future authoritarian would be turned around by knowing that DJT died in prison is far-fetched. More likely, the lesson the future authoritarian would learn, from Trump, would be that he needs to more thoroughly destroy democracy.
This isn’t to say that prosecutors should give Trump a pass. What they should do is look for every opportunity to go by the normal rulebook despite the case having special features. Among the rules is: Only indict people when there is a probability of conviction. I doubt there is, but it will be a legitimate judgment call I trust the prosecutors to make.
As for punishment if he is convicted, it of course should follow sentencing guidelines. No political interference allowed.
Rather than a legal solution, which would mean years and years of court, appeals, costs and free publicity for trump, I prose a political solution:
Give trump an ambassadorship.
I hear Ulan Bator is a great place to spend a few years.
Too nice for him. When my daughter lived in Hong Kong she went there. Lots of traffic.
I wonder if we could set up an embassy at the South Pole. Or North Pole, so he can get dunked when the ice melts.
Oh, it wouldn’t discourage Trump at all. But it might discourage future presidents, and if it causes him to lose a good bit of his base it would be worth it.
The NY Times Sunday magazine had a big article looking at various charges and the probabilities he could get convicted on them. The most salient point, which I hadn’t considered, is that Trump is the master at drawing out appeals. So even if he goes to jail, it would take a long time to get him there.
However the benefit would be to open up all his hidden records for public scrutiny beyond any “fake news” nonsense.
Hitler was a nobody when he went to prison. Throwing him in jail in 1935 would have been a lot more useful - not that I can see how that could have possibly happened.
Let him appeal. The prosecutors can make the very strong argument that he is a flight risk and demand that he be held on Riker’s Island until all the appeals are done.
This is true, given the number of overseas properties he owns, although I suspect they’d simply make him surrender his passport. However, he does also have (I believe) a private jet, so perhaps that wouldn’t be enough.
I’m thinking Mogadishu.