Considering how valuable they are as part of negotiations I would expect them to keep very close track.
…it’s absolutely bonkers to expect Hamas to hold up their end of the deal which they agreed to?
If that’s was the real issue, it would have come up during negotiations. They wouldn’t have said “yes yes yes no problem we will get you the bodies we just need X days” and then only release a tiny fraction of what they agreed to.
It did.
(my bolding)
…what does this have to do with anything? Did they return all except 10 or 15 bodies? Or are they playing ridiculous fucking games and only returning single digit number of bodies?
If they were only able to find a handful of bodies total, why would they tell Israel “we are going to have issues finding the last 5 or 6 bodies” instead of “we don’t know where most of the bodies are”?
It’s been a long time since I had a math class, but I’m pretty sure that neither “seven to nine” nor “between 10 and 15” are the same as “5 or 6”
Huh?
The point I am making is that you’re saying “why is it surprising that Hamas can’t find all of the bodies?” And I am answering you, “because Hamas agreed to release all of the bodies, and said they might have issues with a handful, but agreed to return most of them without making a stink about how difficult it will be for them to get those bodies; but then they didn’t return all but a handful of bodies; instead, they only returned a tiny handful”.
Do you see the difference between me saying “I’ll give you $30 for something” and then when actually making the purchase saying “oh shit, I only have $25 on me” versus saying “I’ll give you $30 for something” and then when actually making the purchase saying “here’s $4, why are you complaining? Have you seen the state of my wallet? I can’t find the money!”?
There are, if I’m reading the stories correctly, 28 bodies.
Two different Israeli sources late last week state separately that there are 7-9 or 10-15 bodies that may not be retrieved. That puts the number that Hamas agreed could be produced to be, on the low side 13 and on the high side 21, of which they have produced 7. That’s half to a third, not “a tiny handful”.
You’re the one that said “5 or 6” might be a problem implying they could easily produce 20+, for which you have not provided a source.
In any event, this is not like me trying to short you 25 bucks. Your analogy sucks. The living hostages, which presumably matter just a teeny tiny bit more than the corpses, have all been turned over.
And in case you haven’t noticed, Hamas got 2,000 terrorists including 250 convicted of at least one murder and serving a life sentence in exchange. Hamas certainly hasn’t been shorted on this exchange, which is why it’s so pathetic that they’re trying stunts like hiding bodies or substituting out the bodies of hostages for randomly selected dead bodies.
Also, you didn’t address my point at all. I asked you why Hamas agreed to hand over bodies they knew they didn’t have, and you cited Israeli officials who correctly guessed ahead of time that Hamas was lying. That doesn’t explain why Hamas would agree to a deal if they know that they can’t uphold their side of.
Please read my post. From the quoted story:
“However, during the negotiations, Hamas told mediators and Israel that it does not know the location of some deceased hostages.”
They straight up said they didn’t have all the bodies.
Also, the text of the agreement does not obligate Hamas to produce any bodies not in their possession.
(bold added)
The agreement explicitly acknowledges that Hamas doesn’t have all the bodies, and is required to turn over only those it does, and share any information they have regarding those it does not. Unless Hamas misrepresented how many bodies were actually in their possession (certainly possible), it’s not obvious where they’ve lied. That they haven’t found other bodies not in their possession yet does not place them in violation of the terms of the agreement, unless you have any evidence that they are hanging onto some bodies for some unfathomable reason.
And i wonder what the exact language was around “returning bodies”. Oh, i see there was a great deal of discussion around the fact that they didn’t actually have all the bodies.
It’s not obvious they’ve lied, and failing to return remains of dead bodies is totally insignificant as compared to the obscenity of starving innocents in exchange.
But… A reason to hang on to remains is not unfathomable, as Israel has bargained for dead bodies before, and the motive for hanging onto valuable trade goods is not unfathomable.
So who knows. Maybe Hamas is playing games with the bodies. It’s still nothing compared to starving the population.
Of course, that’s not a thing that’s happening. There are still hundreds of aid trucks entering the strip every day.
They said they would only let in half as much aid to pressure Gaza. That’s just obscene.
Other than restarting the fighting, sanctions are the only way to pressure Hamas.
That being said, some developments:
-
Hamas announced that the third and final pulse will only include 2 bodies and that this is all they have access to.
-
Israeli Intel estimates they can access at least 10 more bodies.
-
For now, they are back to letting 600 trucks a day in. I can’t tell if they had 300 trucks for one day or if it was just discussed but not done.
-
They still aren’t opening the second crossing.
Sanctions that make it harder to buy a piano or play Minecraft or move your money overseas are ordinary tools of diplomacy. Sanctions that starve innocent people are not. They are arguably worse than lobbing a few bombs.
And it’s pretty hard to argue that this is a sanction that has meaning while also arguing that there is no famine in Gaza.
That could be true if, for example, the only type of aid entering Gaza was food, or if every truck entering Gaza was carrying a homogeneous and interchangeable distribution of generic “aid”, or if Israel had no control over what is in each truck.
In fact, none of those assumptions are true. The aid that was threatened was reconstruction material, not food or medical aid.
Meanwhile, some more good news as the ceasefire holds: the full 600 daily trucks continue to enter Gaza; the logistics surrounding Rafah crossing have been worked out and it is supposed to open Monday; and it looks like a deal is being worked out with Egypt to take point on the international security forces. The establishment of such a body is absolutely paramount. It’s the only way to enforce a disarmament of Hamas, other than Israeli occupation which nobody wants.
What Comes After Starvation in Gaza?
Here’s an interesting analysis of the relationship between Trump and Netanyahu, and between the U.S. and Israel, in the context of the ceasefire. The writer is a respected Israeli columnist, politically right of center but no fan of Netanyahu - a never-Bibier, in American terms.
In short: Trump and his people made Netanyahu their bitch.
Interesting, though what I get from the content is it was more Bibi than “the Americans” that “turned it into a banana republic” by depending on a “friendly” Trump administration to prop him up. The problem with the corrupt making deals with the corrupt is that at some point the bigger, stronger corrupt will assert that HE is bigger and stronger.
That article’s thesis would fuel the arguments of those in the USA and elsewhere who say Biden could and should have bent Netanyahu’s neck down and achieved the same thing earlier if there had been the will to press hard.
I suspect that Netanyahu didn’t foresee Trump being a peace vulture, who would swoop in as soon as he could sense Fait Accompli in the air. He probably expected him to keep pushing to exterminate each and every member of Hamas, in a hardline stance, right alongside the Israeli government.
In this moment, to be sure, it does put Israel in the subordinate position. But I don’t think that Netanyahu will get played again or let himself get caught unexpected. You’d need a continuing and accepting obedience to class Israel a a Banana Republic. Getting played for the fool once, in a relatively minor way, isn’t to that level.
In general, no one ever wins by trusting Trump. At the moment that you ever forget that he’s only looking out for #1, you’re always going to end up getting screwed over. It’s unclear to my why so many otherwise smart people fail to be able to keep that in mind, but I’d expect that they’re able to remember it after the first time getting stabbed in the back.
One hopes so. It’s just weird how he’s been able to go through life cheating and backstabbing his way to the top, and new victims just keep presenting themselves. You’d think people would have more of a sense of self-preservation. It’s not like he’s subtle about it.