I guess the title says it all. I always hear about the death toll (and injuries) from the various hurricanes, and wonder if ALL the deaths/injuries should be attributed to the hurricane…and in the largest sense, I guess Yes. However, some deaths in hurricanes are due to people going out driving in it or defying mandatory evacuation orders and getting drowned by the surge or on the business end of a falling tree.
I would venture that these are Death by Misadventure or maybe even negligent suicide (I just made that up). They really shouldn’t count as far as the “hurricane death toll” is concerned, and the victims’ negligence should definitely be taken into account when it comes time to dole out disaster relief/insurance claims, etc. I reckon this would also play into how much federal disaster relief a state gets.
Well, I’m going to ignore a few points of your OP, and just point out that the main reason for the development of social programs by democracies, such as hurricane aide, is for the better equiped memebers of society to help those that are less well equiped in an “Ability to take care of oneself” sort of way.
I would assume that persons injured by a hurricane because of doing dumb things would qualify as having a decreased “ability to take care of themselves” then your average Joe, and thus are the actual reason that social programs were created in the first place.
This is the difference between the current system in the US, and a true capitalist state.
Well, I’ll give a pass to people who are of (legally) decreased capacity…I’m really talking about the “yeehah! let’s git drunk and ride out the hurricane” types. While it can certainly be asserted that they are of decreased ability, they are generally not such that they don’t understand “Get Out. Now. That’s an Order”.
BTW, I’m not asking this mean-spiritedly. I am fully in favor of aiding victims of natural disasters, quickly and generously. Of course, how long we should continue to provide relief to folks who choose to live in harm’s way in spite of opportunities to build elsewhere is another matter.
I have no answer for you, but I would like to chime in and say this is a darn good question. I am in central Florida myself, and have heard all about the death tolls due to our hurricanes. There were some directly caused by the hurricanes, such as the people getting crushed by trees falling on them in their homes. But I have also heard the stories about the guy who was on his roof trying to fix a tarp ,and fell off, the kids sailing boats during the storm, the people driving during the worst winds and losing control of the car, etc. To me these aren’t “hurricane” deaths, but accidental deaths due to a lack of common sense.
You wouldn’t have caught MY ass outside during any of 'em.
I have lived in Florida all of my 40 years and have never even seen a hurricane till now. And I dare say there aren’t many places in the US that are not “in harm’s way” in one form or another as far as natural disasters go.
I hear you, Sassafras. I wouldn’t think of Central Florida as disaster-prone, but anything built right onshore or on barrier islands, yes. On the San Andreas Fault? Yes. On the flood plain of a river (<100 yr floodplain)? Yes.
I have to ’ fess up- the beach is on one end of my street and a river on the other end, and I didn’t evacuate even tho they told us to. Truthfully, with the whole state under fire there was really no where to go and we are all broke from the previous 2. ( I left during Charley and Frances and went inland- where the winds were way worse than on the beach. ) They ordered a mandatory evacuation Friday, and on Saturday the track shifted so we weren’t in the direct path any more. We decided to stay.
What about all the people who decide to run a generator inside their houses after a hurricane? News reports always place the blame with the use of generators in general :dubious: . I’ve always thought that cranking and running a small, noisy gasoline engine in your living room shows a complete lack of common sense.
One heartbreaking reason so many people elect to stay in place is that most (and sometimes perhaps all) municipal shelters do not accept any pets. Given that if you do evacuate, you might not be able to return home for several days, I can see why many would choose to stay.
Another is out of fear that without someone holding down the fort, looters would have their way with your possessions. It’s easy for people to say that mobile home dwellers should evacuate, but they are precisely the people who can least afford to be looted in the messy aftermath of a disaster.
Both excellent points! I wouldn’t leave my pets unless they locked me up.
And I forgot to mention the lady who left her home for a drive in her a/c 'ed car, left candles burning in her house, and guess what happened? House burned down and killed all her cats.
This is a recognized issue in disaster relief and many agencies are working on solving the problem. It is quite common for shelter residents to sleep in their cars in the parking lots: it’s where they keep their pets, after all.
One of the things the Red Cross is trying to do is set up “dual use” shelters. Many schools these days are built with a gym and a fieldhouse. If we can set up a shelter in the gym, we can use the field house as an animal shelter (or vice versa).Minnesota has gone so far as to set up animal decontamination sites. The last time the nuke power plant held a disaster drill they had two decon lines - one for pets, one for people.
And please don’t think the “no pets” policy is heartless. Think of Aunt Tilly and her adorable pomeranian. You know, the pomeranian that doesn’t like little kids. Or of the weird guy down the street with the pit bull mix. Or of the little old lady with six cats…and the evacuated child who goes into anphylactic shock around cat dander.
A couple of months ago I attended a public health disaster drill with another 30 or so organizations. The social services representatives were shocked when I said no one allows pets into a shelter. The only person at the table who thought it a good idea was the veterinarian.
I haven’t heard any cases of it this year, but typically when the typhoon season gets underway here, the news reports about people being killed will inevitably include the line “he was on the roof of his house.”
What on earth would possess you to climb onto your roof in the middle of a typhoon? If the wind’s strong enough to rip chunks out of your house, it’s strong enough to flick you off the roof to your death. Which is exactly what happens.
An old lady in Pensacola went for a walk at 2am just as Ivan was trashing the place. She stepped on a fallen high-tension wire and exploded into flames. She was added to Ivan’s statistics.
In Tampa, a man was driving his vehicle too fast on a wet road, hours after Frances had past by. He crashed and died. I don’t know for sure, but I bet he was added to Frances’s death toll.
I dont think the guy driving too fast should become a hurricane statistic. It wasn’t a direct result. I’m still debating whether the lady should. Why the hell does a person go out at 2am in the middle of a hurricane. And how does one NOT see a fallen high-tension wire?
Besides, hurricane deaths should be those caused by drownings, impalements from flying debri, mud slides, trees and such falling on you, etc. I don’t think it has anything to do with a person’s level of stupidity. Had the lady been out walking at 2am in the middle of a hurricane and a wire FELL on her. Then I think that’s a hurricane death, regardless of her state of mind. But if she STEPS on a fallen wire. . . I’m still undecided.
Or truck drivers who drive into low hanging wires and then get out of their truck only to burst into flames. That shouldn’t be a hurricane death.
In Tampa, a man was supervising the repair of power lines and a huge tree branch fell on him. This was a couple days after the hurricane. That is way too indirectly related to be a hurricane death.
But if an old person dies from the heat because the hurricane wiped out his power and he had no AC. That’s a hurricane death.
At 2 am in any storm it is DARK, meaning everything is harder to see. Add to that wind, windborne debris, and driving rain your vision deteriorates further. Powerlines are dark in color. They are linear. In the dark and in the rain a fallen wire resembles part of a tree. It may be covered by fallen branches or other debris in part or in whole. So, leaving aside for a minute the whole issue of going for a walk at 2 am in a hurricane, she might have either not seen the thing what with the pouring water, wind, debris and darkness, or mistaken it for something that was safe to step on.
Actually, most of the damage caused by the hurricanes were to older buildings. Those built to the “Andrew” or “Opal” standard were much less damaged, if at all, while their neighbors were knocked flat.
As the homes are rebuilt to the new standard (any home that needs more than 50% replacement based on some algorithm) we’ll lose less and less each hurricane.
And shelters aren’t perfect, either - During both Frances and Jeanne, shelters were damaged and the occupants had to be moved. The best plan is to make a plan - have a friend or family member you can stay with if you can’t protect your home, or protect your home as best you can.
If I ran a mobile home park, I’d put a shelter on site that residents could stay in/at. Don’t know what I’d do about pets, though.
Homes in my neighborhood were built in the 50s. Not a lick of damage to any of us., besides a few roof tiles and fences.My landlord lives in a new ( 2002) subdivision - lots of roofs gone, ceilings caved in, and garages destroyed. Our homes are solid concrete!
Being too cautious will get you selected out as well. Myriad women suffer needlessly from false positives resulting from mammograms they didn’t need (see Calculated Risks), and people throw away gobs of good medicine because expiration dates aren’t all they’re cracked up to be (story on NPR while back).
I’ve actually seen a commercial where a responsible driver stops safely at a stop light and there is a disclaimer that reads: “Professional driver on closed course.” I am not entirely convinced that when the State issues weather-related warnings that their risk assessment necessarily matches what it should be for many people. We’re told not to talk on a phone during a thunderstorm; but one lightning death a year from phone use may very well be a tiny, indeed miniscule level of risk.
People certainly do stupid things. I don’t know that hurricane-related deaths should be put into that category, especially because I don’t know the level of risk they face. Are hurricane-related deaths any more stupid than the deaths caused when people drive to their vacation spot instead of flying?
