Agreed, but after what he said about my girlfriend, I was less inclined to treat him with kid gloves. But I suppose that was my own immaturity as well as anyone else’s. And yeah, lander2k2 was up against far too many opposing posters. Didn’t really make it a fair fight.
Well, if one is going to make broad accusations of the immorality of other posters while refusing to provide any factual information of any sort, one is liable to find oneself against insurmountable odds.
If one chooses to try to extinguish a volcano by pissing in it, I am less inclined to feel sorry when it erupts.
That said, the issue is open to genuine discussion. (I am very open to any workable suggestions that will get me out from under the burden of monitoring a Schedule II drug. It is simply not that much fun.)
We have had discussions about the use of Ritalin (and other psychotropic drugs) in the past. Some of them get surly and some have been more or less respectful.
Goodbeem, if you have actual materials to discuss, I am willing to consider them. We may not come to agreement, but the topic is well worth discussing.
I’m not sure how to proceed. I’m not a very experienced poster and as I said in my previous posts, it was a while ago when I was involved with ADHD (say, 5 years). So my knowledge may be outdated and hence my opinion. I’ll try to debate the issue as best as possible, without insulting anyone’s girlfriend, or anyone, for that matter.
tomndebb, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘materials’, my concern about Ritalin is more a conceptual one than that I am contesting any of the findings presented by (for lack of better words) the ‘pro-prescription people’ (which, accidentaly, alliterates nicely). Ritalin helps, surprisingly well and mostly without serious side effects. At least in the short-term.
The following is meant as discussion, not necessarily as an opinion I would hold no matter what. It certainly not meant to insult anyone, more as to investigate the negative side of prescribing Ritalin. If, at the end, it is concluded, there is none or it is not substantial enough, all the better.
The moral (again, for lack of a better word, conceptual might do as well) issue is something like this.
ADHD has a long history, starting somewhere in 1902, having been called various things (hyperkinesia, minimal brain damage, ADD, ADHD etc) and given various etiologies. In other words; why are we so sure now that we can put the finger on the right spot? How are we so sure this is a genuine condition and not a collection of all kinds of different conditions with overlapping behavioural manifestations? If the latter were the case, caution is perhaps warranted in admistering medication. Again, I am not against drugs for children per se, I would just like to make a case for caution. Which is not to say that the PPP are not cautious.
And while it might be the case that a lot of children profit from being given Ritalin, I was always impressed by the finding that all children do, regardless of them being diagnosed as having ADHD. This is reason to question the use of Ritalin for me, but that might be unwarranted. ADHD children could then “just” be at the lower end of a normal attention continuum. The presence of physical markers does not immediately invalidate that hypothesis, I’d say.
One other worry is the possible link I see with socialeconomic status and the use of medication for children. When I was I child care worker, noticing that children in poorer families get Ritalin prescribed earlier is not all that difficult (no cite, just personal experience). Perhaps it is impossible to prevent this from happening, but I’d sure would like to see it otherwise.
No crackpot-conspiracy theories here, but I do find it at least conceivable that because the way our society works, Ritalin may be prescribed easier than it used to be. And allthough psychologists do not directly benefit from prescribing Ritalin, it is not so strange to think that while it is their job, the hospital they work in would benefit more from the time effective medication than the hours of behavioural therapy needed to change the behaviour of one child. Mind you, I’m questioning the way the medical approach to ADHD works, not the honesty of the practicioners, which is not at stake here.
Allthough I admit it isn’t very clear yet (mea culpa, mea culpa), I’ll try to wrap it up: there are reasons to prescribe and there are reasons not to. I strongly oppose the idea of administering Ritalin to any child that fits the DSM-IV criteria without consideration, I just as stronly oppose thinking that it is boredom or lack of sleep and that a strong parental hand makes the problems disapear.
So there you go, an indefensible position 
For those with access to ovid, this article sums it up nicely
Root, Richard W. II & Resnick, Robert J.(2003) An Update on the Diagnosis and Treatment of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in
Children. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 34–41.
Well, if you want long term problems for Ritalin, I would say that it stunted my growth. I would probably have been a wee bit taller. Not that I’m complaining-I like my height just fine.
Disclaimer: I don’t have any particular experience with pharmacology or pediatric or adolescent psychology/psychaitry.
My view on ADHD, ADD, ODD and other disorders of childhood is that the “panic” state that the media puts parents in when they first bring up a new story. Suddenly, every station has twelve stories per hour about this disorder (e.g. look at SARS and West Nile Virus).
Thus, parents look at the news reports and panic (because that is essentially how the stories are broadcast). Then, the parents rush their kids to the nearest person who will give their child a fix to the problem (as seen on TV!).
(For a fictional response to my general feeling on these disorders see: South Park Episodes on Ritalin and child kidnapping)
I believe that a better way to approach a cure to a child with a supposed activity disorder is by changing other possible problems first. Such as: 1. does the kid eat a pound of sugar-caffine bombs before/during school/homework, 2. does the kid have a dietary problem that may cause the problem, 3. does the child’s homelife help or hinder school/studying, 4. you get the picture.
I think many parents are lazy and want the magic pill to fix all. I have a problem with the first solution is a pill.
!Warning!
Personal Anecdotes Follow:
(One)
A friend of mine (BytopianFriend) said she had the “buzzies” as a young child. Her mother would find her watching static at 3 AM. BytopianFriend would never concentrate in school, be a little heckion to punish and only generally freak out in a classic ADHD style.
BytopianFriend’s doctor told her parents to change her dietary habits in various ways: no caffine, no processed sugar, no artificial anything, etc. BytopianFriend became cured of her “buzzies” in a week. She started doing well in school and minding her parents.
(Two)
I was an incorrigable child as far as schooling went. I hate the structured classrooms. I never felt challenged. I wanted to learn about cool stuff that I wanted to learn about. I hated the subjects that they taught in school. I never was attentive. I never did my homework. I barely passed from second grade to seventh grade.
My father had an idea. A teacher had an idea. My father, who is a big computer nerd, knew I was a budding computer nerd. Thus, he said unto me, “Son, forsooth. If thy shalt geteth all A’s-ith in schoolith, thous shalteth geteth a computer… ith.” I was intrigued.
My English teacher, Mrs. Davenport (bless her heart), changed her view of me after a parent-teacher conference with my mother (who has a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology). She quit acting as though I were Mr. Damien McSatan. She knew I loved wierd occulty/religious/magically stuff. She made a deal with me, “Looks here see… If yous getsa alla youra homea-worka ina ona timea… I’lla leta you goa toa thea librarya.”
What happened to Little BytopianDream?
He got all A’s. He did all of his (I still shudder) English homework. I got a computer of my own (a PC Jr.). I would quickly and correctly do my English homework and run to the library to find and read about every wierd pagan/occult/strange stuff I could find. (I swear my English teacher and the librarian were Pagans. They always used to very receptive and interested in what I had found. And some of the books were WAY wierd for a Georgia Middle School Library.)
But do I think some people do need ritalin? Yes.
Does everyone who is taking it need it? No.
I can’t say how much I was impressed by the second post to this thread. scotandrsn really knows what he’s talking about.
My only problem was with this:
It should be pointed out that we truly have no idea of the nature of ADHD’s biological component. Ritalin doesn’t correct neurochemistry, it just changes it in a way that happens to result in a desirable effect.
BytopianDream, if you had bothered to READ the thread, you would have seen that mentioned already and debunked.
ADHD is when there is NO OTHER KNOWN CAUSE. It is different from just being “HYPER” or on a “sugar high.”
:smack: