If I were hassling strangers on the street to give me money, I would expect (and deserve) to be arrested. So I have no trouble whatsoever reconciling that statement with my position that panhandlers should be taken into custody by the police.
Yes, I’m serious.
Do they still sell “Streetwise” in Chicago?
I’ve worked in several homeless shelters and can confirm that a significant percentage have chosen to remain on the streets. Something unexpected happens to put someone out there, and at first they try to get their lives in order, but they can’t or won’t, and after awhile they just stop trying to sober up or hold a job or whatever and just adjust to life on the streets. In many cases, they have made freinds with other homeless – maybe the only freinds they have – and they have settled routines of where they go and what they do, etc. After awhile, the prospect of getting a job and an apartment represents a traumatic change that they’d rather not undergo. Essentially they’ve given up and stopped trying. You can make a case that they are mentally ill – depression or what have you – but in many cases it starts to beg the question if we’re not just redefining terms.
For my own self, I will give if/when I can, but I’m under no illusions that it will make a difference in their lives. 100 to 1 it won’t. I do it because I want to be the kind of person that does that kind of thing. For the Biblically inclined, Luke 6:35 talks about giving to those who ask, not for their sake, but for your own.
based on what you’ve said it appears that society acts as an enabler for the lifestyle. I was trying to think of some mental challenge that your experiences could address. What do you think would happen if nobody gave money and what would happen if each beggar received $10,000 as a jump-start?
I dunno; those weasels are always up to something.
I always give money to street people, unless they appear to be a threat (which they rarely do). I don’t care what they spend it on. If they’re living on the street, a cold beer would be a welcome relief from a depressing life. At least it would be for me! I try to give $10, but it depends on my finances and my mood.
Hi everyone, first time poster.
Panhandlers are scum.
Sure, they look sad and pathetic in their ragged clothes and with their unwashed faces. What you don’t see is how they break into buildings at night for shelter, steal clothes from laundomats and clotheslines to bundle up with, and piss, shit, vomit, and leave trash, broken beer bottles, and used hypodermic needles in people’s yards.
There is almost no reason for anyone to be homeless. Think about it. If I fell on hard times, I have at least a dozen family members and friends who would take me in until I got back on my feet. I’ll bet most of you do too. With the exception of what I’m sure is a small percentage who really have no one to turn to, people are homeless because either they are too proud to ask family/friends for help, or else they are such assholes that there is no one willing to help them. Either way, they’ve got what they deserve.
Living in the outskirts of Chicago, I am faced with this predicament every time I venture into the city. Chicago has a program called StreetWise where the homeless can get the StreetWise newspapers for free and sell them on the streets. I will occasionaly buy a paper from one of them, but otherwise I won’t give money to panhandlers unless they are doing something to somewhat earn it. There is a group of about 10 kids who play buckets and stuff like that like drums, and I’ll give money to them or other street musicians (even if they suck).
I give to panhandlers quite freely. There are many in my neighbourhood. They are there for lots of reasons: mental illness, disability, substance abuse, and so on. I have a friend who is in his sixties: as a child he was institutionalized for some (quite possibly illusory) ‘mental illness’ and now he is well fucked up, partly from having spent his whole life in an institution a la One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, and partly from the drugs he was given while he was there. He has a home and a number of jobs, with organizations whose purpose is largely to provide jobs for people like him. He is lucky that he’s reasonably functional and can work. His wife, for instance, a paranoid schizophrenic, cannot. If she did not have him she would be out on the street in a second.
The panhandlers, homeless and other ‘mental patients’ in my neighbourhood have never been remotely threatening to me. They are either friendly, or they ignore me completely. In fact, I have had many interactions with homeless people in Toronto and in Bristol (which has an enormous number of young street people who are addicted to herion) and never have I felt remotely unsafe.
I give them money quite regularly. I don’t care what they spend it on: if I was going to spend it on booze or drugs (not unlikely), then how can I judge them for doing the same? Do I expect him to take my two bucks and put it towards a deposit for an apartment? Invest in his RRSP? Buy a new suit to get a job?
Who am I to judge if he takes it straight into the liquor store?
Since we’re trading anecdotes, I’ll tell you about the guy I saw in the grocery store the other day. He had an enormous pocketful of change, and he brought a bag of oranges over to the counter. He bought as many as he could afford, and carefully counted out his pennies and nickels to pay for them. Then he kindly thanked the cashier and went on his way.
So, does he ‘deserve’ your money?
It’s heartening to see that so many of you have been fortunate to grow up without mental illness, with supportive families, in a safe environment, and that you are now able to have well-paying jobs and computers with Internet access. Also nice that you have ready access to so many TV specials on how homeless people are con artists.
I would hope that you would recognize that not everyone has had the fortunate circumstances that you have. Before you judge, please do some reading. Lots of people have written things about the homeless which do not make for such entertaining television. Perhaps we don’t like to see the people who are really needy.
I’ll even give you a place to start. On the Toronto Disaster Relief Committee website you can download reports on the state of TB in Toronto’s homeless population, the state of our shelter systems (worse than lots of refugee camps), etc. I don’t think that the situation here is too much different from the situation in other cities, except maybe the weather brings a greater risk than some American cities.
It’s interesting that so many of us are able to have two conflicting ideas: one, that people living on the street ‘like’ it or ‘prefer’ it; and two, that all the awful things they put up with, like TB or the risk of freezing to death (very real these days in Toronto), are somehow things they deserve.
Think about it. If it’s so shitty to live on the street, then why do people do it?
I always give money to beggars, any time day or night. I cant control what they do with the money, but giving makes me feel better so I do. If I didnt give them the $5 I had, I would have just blown it on something else anyway. You have to figure if you have money ON you, its probably not your rent money, since that would be in a bank somewhere.
[hit-and-run]
Machiavelli convinced me that we should give.
Niccolo Machiavelli, “The Discourses”
translated by Leslie J. Walker, Penguin Classics 1983.
Page 154.
[quote]
Furthermore, that common advantage
which results from a self-governing state is not
recognized by anybody so long as it is possessed - the
possibility of enjoying what one has, freely and
without incurring suspicion for instance, the
assurance that one’s wife and children will be
respected, the absence of fear for oneself - for no
one admits that he incurs an obligation to another
merely because that other has done him no wrong. (emphasis added)
[/quote
[/hit-and-run]
I’m a reasonably soft touch for street musicians and the like, but the rest better stay away. Ask, and you will NEVER get! That goes for all types of solicitation. Invade my personal space, and you will be going downtown, with a side trip to the Emergency Room. I hate bums, and aggressive bums will be met with greater aggression. On the other hand, if you entertain, or at the very least don’t intrude on my path, I have been known to be fairly generous - that means giving bills instead of change. I have been assaulted once, and my father several times, under the guise of “Got any spare change?” So that led to our standard response of “Piss off!” and a quick prep for possible assault.
IMHO, most bums are just that: bums. Deserving of nothing more than contempt. Yes, there are genuine hard-luck cases out there. So what? There are lots of people on this planet a lot worse off.
I really like your post.
Jesus said to “give to those who ask of thee”, also, but not many Christians feel obligated to do so.
I was standing in front of a book store waiting for it to open, when this guy walks up, (John) with a fancy jacket, and a huge crystal hung around his neck. He was waiting also. We talked and I found out he was wiccian. White witch craft, good witches kind of thing.
Soon this guy (drunk, smelling of alcohol and sweat) walked up stright to John and said “Mister, could you give me a quarter so I can buy a bottle of wine.”
John shoved his hand in his pocket and came up empty, saying: " I don’t have a quarter, would you take a dollar."
The drunk smiled saying, “Yes, now I can buy a larger bottle of wine.”
John reached into his backpocket for his billfold and when he opened it I could see only one dollar there, which he gave the drunken man.
John say: “Go in Peace.”
The drunk said “God bless you mister.”
John acted as if the whole scene were something he did every day.
I thought a lot about this exchange, and now I always give them something.
Love
Same thing that happens with the lottery. Some would take advantage of it and change their lives. Most would end up back where they are in a year.
[QUOTE=Magiver]
based on what you’ve said it appears that society acts as an enabler for the lifestyle. I was trying to think of some mental challenge that your experiences could address. What do you think would happen if nobody gave money
[QUOTE]
If you’re talking about just handouts of change, it wouldn’t make a big difference. Many if not most homeless get income from disability checks or day labor or something else; most don’t depend on panhandling, and some refuse to do it. If you’re talking about totally stopping all charity, well, yes, in the long term it would lead to a great reduction in the numbers of people on the street. In the short term, it’d be pretty ugly.
Same thing that happens with the lottery. Some would take advantage of it and change their lives. Most would end up back where they are in a year.
Why shouldn’t I “enable” a “lifestyle” that I don’t have a problem with?
Guinastasia, I am not extremely PC, but I feel it necessary to interject on this assumption of bias. The logic here-that because they are mentally ill they will assault you is fearmongering and has no real basis outside of an unfortunate “mental illness=violent” association. This is a stigmata that continues to distance the less understood and destitute from “normal society”. My experience is that the mentally ill are no more or less prone to violence than “normal” people. I have never been assaulted by a mentally ill beggar…have you?
Well, I won’t use the word “deserve,” but many of them make choices for the same sorts of reasons the rest of us do things that we know objectively are bad for us in the long run. Addictions of various kinds are the most obvious. Immediate gratification is another (I’d rather spend the $5 on a McD’s meal now instead of eating at the shelter and saving it to improve my situation).
One of the biggest is inertia and fearfulness. The majority of homeless people do not just wander aimlessly all day. They have specific haunts they go to, routines they follow, and social networks among other homeless people. The guys they hang out with while waiting in line at the shelter and for day labor may be the only freinds they have, and leaving the streets would represent a huge change for them.
Your self-esteem is low, you’ve lost the last few jobs you had, you’ve tried to stop drinking but failed … after awhile you just say fuck it and live on the streets. You know how to survive, even to find small pleasures, and as has been pointed out, there is a freedom when you know that you can’t fail any worse than you have and that you will never disappoint anyone, including yourself, anymore. Why leave all that to take a chance on some crazy pipe-dream about holding a job and paying rent. You tried that before and screwed it up. Why go through it again? Better the devil you know than the one you don’t.
Is that state of mind “mental illness”? I dunno. I suppose it depends on how you define your terms. More to the point, does calling it that make for a more effective way of addressing the problem than just saying they need to get off their ass and work? Dunno that either. My own experience is that in dealing with long-term homeless people, except for the massively schizophrenic, there is always a fair amount of choice involved, and that nothing is going to change until they make behavioral changes and stick to them. Psychology can help with that; but so can Jesus or Allah or a good freind. It can even happen with someone just sucking it up and facing their fears.
In any event, I am willing to be compassionate for the simple reason is that what they’ve done to get themselves in that situation is usually no different in kind (even if it is worse in degree) from the selfish, lazy, stupid things I do every day.
Do you really think someone ineptly playing an ocarina on the corner is earning something? There are plenty of street musicians and performers around here, but the only similarity they have to beggars is that they’ll both accept money. I’m sure most of these musicians have day jobs, or live in their parents’ basement, but they have some talent anyway. I think it’s counterproductive these two groups of people together.
Giving money to street performers who entertain you is not philanthropy (even if you give bills) any more than paying to see a movie is philanthropy. I guess if they suck then it’s different, but I don’t see why you’d even want them to perform if you’re not entertained by it.
The only people who have ever assaulted me in any way were all mentally ill people on the street (that is, we were outside, on the street–I wouldn’t know where they lived). So there’s one answer of no statistical worth for you.
When I lived in a place where I routinely met panhandlers, I wavered between giving and not giving. Still do, I suppose, except that I don’t get tested on it anymore. I did prefer to give food, because I think that supporting a person’s drug/liquor habit is a pretty awful thing to do to them. Now I can afford to support food charities, ones which I know have virtually no overhead and which genuinely help people, and I think my money is better given to them–but I still worry about beggars.
I once gave a guy 20 cents out of my pocket, and then realized that it was all the money I had in the world. I had left my wallet at my parents’ house, 3 hours away, and it hadn’t arrived in the mail yet. I explained and he happily gave it back. So that was nice. Not that the 20 cents was going to buy me much, I guess, though I could have made an emergency phone call.