What’s really annoying is when they put on heavy overcoats while talking to you. Makes you feel like a perv every time.
This whole thread just makes me want to become a lesbian.
Nah, because then you get the guys who believe lesbians were put on this planet for their viewing enjoyment.
(What do you mean, you liking girls isn’t for my entertainment? If you didn’t want me to watch, why would you like girls? After all, I think two girls are hot, so obviously, this is for me.)
Even on here you get guys reacting like that sometimes.
Well, you could say it’s taking longer than we thought.
Oh boy, between the deliberate humor and the inadvertent, this thread is a riot.
Just look at how it goes when we try to discuss something factual, like where to buy bras or how, or something about our periods. Inevitably we get the “let me try and see if your bra fits hur hur hur” or “eeewww periods are disgusting” even after we’ve put up a TMI warning. Um, no one invited you.
I can understand, but don’t do that!
Male here, middle aged. I tell my friends that getting older is great because I can admire women not only in their 20s, but now also those in their 30s, 40s, and even some who are 50.
But guys, don’t be an obvious lech about it. There’s a way to admire a lady without making her feel uncomfortable - and don’t we know when we’ve done that? Don’t stare, don’t ogle, and when talking with the ladies by all means either maintain eye contact or look at something else away from her. Don’t be caught glancing down at the cleavage!
This thread reminds me of what Jerry Seinfeld said, “Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You can’t stare at it long, it’s too risky. You get a sense of it then you look away.”
Well, I suppose this is my cue to chime in. Something similar happens with the live lesbian sex shows in Suzie Wong Bar in Soi Cowboy. You have several nude women having sex, doing all manner of nasty to each other, but they invariably keep one hand covering their butthole. No one’s sure what’s up with that, but it’s particular to the shows of the particular group that owns that bar, as they also used to do it at the live lesbian sex shows across the way in Sheba’s Bar, but Sheba’s has been sold and closed pending renovation by the new owner. This odd covering up has never occurred at any other live lesbian sex show.
Alright ladies, I understand how you don’t like guys leering at your chest like you were serving drinks at a strip club. Now do you understand what guys feel like when they take a glance at the nice red stapler on your desk and you clutch your blouse like he tried to shove his head between your breasts? We don’t like being considered pervs because we happened to notice what you deliberately put on display, or worse when we weren’t even doing that.
This.
How is it considering you a perve?
For the same reason we are considered to be leering because we’re in the same room as a woman with her cleavage showing. This is all about perceptions.
I doubt the consensus here is on “comprehensible”. I’m one of those nuisance posters who posts from the phone from time to time, and a lot gets lost in haste and carelessness. But I genuinely like the company and behavior of the opposite sex, they don’t seem like foreigners to me. So I’m consistently amused by the “Whut do wimmin want??” discussions. But I’m a moron when it comes to relationships with extended family and in-laws, so any insight you credit me with cancels out.
Exhibitionists probably want to be ogled. You can spot them in the wild by the style of their clothing. Domesticated women would prefer to be glanced at and regarded as people; boobs are incidentals.
Nope. When we dress for work, we dress for comfort and style. We don’t plan on being hovered over by horndogs, don’t plan for dropped keys, don’t plan for creepers who initiate conversations with for the sole purpose of orbiting the cleavage. You hover; we cover.
You’re way off base. It isn’t about you. Decency requires us to ensure that people walking by our desk aren’t treated to or subjected to a nipple show. We automatically cover areas that might be too revealing from certain angles, whether you’re man, woman, or giraffe. We do it because we don’t want you to get the idea that we find flashing acceptable, we cover because if you’ve approached our desk to discuss the stapler coughbullshit we want to keep the conversation on track, and we cover because we don’t want you to get the idea that we are somehow getting off on your insistence on hoverpeeking. Breasts are jiggly, and unless tailor made for an individual whose weight never changes, bras don’t fit well. As we move around so does our clothing and underwear. Sitting upright at this desk I’m completely covered. As I lean forward to type, the high cut collar of my boatneck sweater gaps open, and if you were to approach my desk, you’d have the same view of my bellybutton as I do. So when you approach my desk, I’m going to clap my shirt to my collarbone or lean back. And the moment you are out of orbit, I’ll return to typing. That goes for you and every other human being who approaches my desk, and if you take it personally it’s probably because you got caught ogling.
Look, we’re not staring at your nuts all day regardless of your clothing choices. We don’t assume you picked out your daily apparel with displaying your assets in mind. We do assume you are wearing clothing that fits you, in colors which please you, in styles that are somewhat current and in keeping with the dress code. Outside of business wear, we do notice if you cut the sleeves out of your shirts to display your guns. We also notice if you are wearing shorts and have nice, muscular legs. A flat stomach is frequently noted, as are big, strong shoulders. We’ve been known, on occasion, to appreciate a bulge, a contour, and other various and sundry trouser lumps. But have any one of you guys, even once, felt like we were ogling/gawking/staring or making you uncomfortable? Why do you think that is? Have you ever had a woman kneel and pretend to tie her shoes in order to get a good eye-to-eye with Mr. Johnson? Ever had a woman roll her chair over to you while you are standing? Ever been bothered enough by a staring woman to cover yourself or complain to others? There’s a reason for that. It’s called discretion.
I swear, I was dicking around earlier about the WonderBra thing, but terrific things have happened for the female form in the last 30 years. Boobs in the wild are no longer rare or special, so what’s the big fucking deal? How can you guys find anything to complain about with so many sizes, shapes, and colors bobbing around you? Politely appreciate the view and move along.
So if you come up to check out my fabulous stapler and at that moment I realize my top button came undone and is showing my ample (yeah, right) cleavage, do I have to let the girls bask in the breeze to avoid hurting anyone’s feelings until you’ve departed from the room, or is it OK for me to try to deal with the situation on the spot? Similarly, if I have a drape-neck top that’s modest until I drop my stuff on the floor and have to bend over to pick it up, should I make you get my stuff for me instead of putting one hand up to stabilize said neckline?
After you get out of jail of course.
It’s more of a shout really.
Since I don’t tend to shield my cleavage regularly from leering, maybe I’m not your audience. But I adjust my packaging for three reasons,
[ul]
[li]My clothing is fitting in an uncomfortable fashion[/li][li]my clothing is draping in an unflattering way (which includes too much boobie at work, and I will admit I’m often made aware of this by a simple glance, not a leer)[/li][li]Whomever I am talking to is making me uncomfortable. They are standing over me where they can look down my shirt, they are sitting while I am standing so they are at breast level, or we are eye to eye, but eye contact is not maintained because they are looking at my body.[/li][/ul]
If you are finding women adjusting their clothing a lot around you it possible that all the women around you are clothing fidgeters, or pearl clutching teases. It’s also quite possible that your presence has simply reminded them that this shirt tends to gap in inappropriate ways or that their underwire is poking them in the armpit.
I’m just aware of it, and I don’t want to be known as the office flasher. When anyone comes to my desk, I try to be aware of what I am showing. While I am sitting here all alone and working away I may not mind that my top has pulled down to the point where you can actually see cleavage. When my coworker comes over, and I work with all women, I pull it up so it’s more modest. When a man comes over, whose eyes immediately flick to it? Even more so. Then you get the creepers who claim “If she didn’t want me to see it, she wouldn’t have put it on display!” Sometimes things just happen.
I think what you describe is mostly what happens. It’s like us guys sucking in our guts when women come around.
But I know that in some cases, women are selectively covering up based on their opinion of the guy. I’ve walked into an office where a woman suddenly becomes modest because of my presence, but she didn’t have any problem with the young new hire already there. And sometimes we get the ‘You perv!’ stare which kind of removes all doubt.
And the opposite happens too. When I was younger and couldn’t do anything without accidently flexing my biceps women tended to come closer, lean in more, and stick their chest out. And even recently I’ve encountered women who suddenly feel the need to undo an extra button when they think I might be well off (you may not believe how brazen middle age single moms can be).
So on top of some guys being assholes and staring, some women are being assholes too and blaming guys for looking at something they left out there.
Anyway, somewhere up above someone mentioned something about women having to look hot to get ahead at work (rough paraphrasing). I’d like to hear more about that because I haven’t noticed it as a necessity really, though maybe it’s less common in the nerd factories I’m likely to see.
But I didn’t see anyone saying that. Can you show me where someone did?
Well, yeah. I’m for sure going to do my best to appear modest in the presence of a father figure. Men under 30 who were raised with the internet are much less likely to be hypnotized by cleavage, or overreact and read too much into a low cut shirt. I try not to give a nipple show to anyone regardless of the age or sex of the observer, but I’m far less threatened by peers than seniors.