Sick and tired of bicyclists ignoring traffic law

The BBQ Pit
121

The proble, fumster, is that people tend to be able to separate drivers from bad drivers in their mind, but the moment a cyclist who obeys the law mentions that maybe cyclists are not the horror of the roads :trade_mark: everyone starts to pile in with their own stories in an attempt to guilt the cyclist who does nothing wrong by proxy, as if all cyclists are of one mind and action.

Don’t believe me? Look at how when Troppus answers saying that cyclists are not the primary danger on the road, Colander then starts in with how they are a danger on the sidewalk. I personally have not ridden on the sidewalk since I was 12, and I doubt Troppus does either - its a poor way to travel by bike even without the danger to pedestrians - but there you have someone trying to lump all the cyclists together. It gets a little tiring, frankly.

I don’t want to tell you how many times I have had a variation on this conversations:

ME: That car that passed me this morning was way too close. Couldn’t have been more than a foot away from me. That was just plain dangerous risking my life like that
OTHER PERSON: You know if you cyclists didn’t run red lights and blow stop signs you’d probably get treated better.
ME: I don’t red lights. Why do you think I do that?
OTHER PERSON: What are you talking about? I saw a cyclist blow a light just a couple of days ago.
ME: Was it me?
OTHER PERSON: No.
ME: So why am I being buzzed for something another rider did?
OTHER PERSON: I’m just saying you cyclists should stop running red lights!

I can only facepalm so much.

Don’t want to hurt cyclists? Good! I’d like to not be hurt. But almost every day there is someone risking my life to save 5-8 seconds by unsafely passing (incidentally, part of the time they are risking other drivers lives when they do this), or tries to push me out of the lane I am in, or drifts into the bike lane, or turns right on red right in front of my when I have the right of way…etc.etc. I have a hard time saying these antics are justified because some rider crossed a red light somewhere else.

122

Really? Because I haven’t seen any motorists posting in this thread about how they feel no obligation to follow basic traffic rules and if you complain about it you’re a hypocrite, but I sure have seen a bunch of cyclists, including you, natter on about how there’s nothing wrong with you breezing through reds and whatnot because oh no, motorists sometimes do stuff too!

Guess what? It doesn’t fucking matter what anyone else does or doesn’t do. You are responsible for your own actions, and you are still obligated to follow traffic regulations. And if you don’t, then other people’s complaints about you are justified! They are justified even if those people are also breaking rules!

123

I don’t, but I also don’t use my cell phone while driving or drink anything more complicated or bulky than water in the car. I’m always cautious, never caused an accident in my life, but that’s not because I can’t multitask. It’s because I’m hyper-vigilant and aware of other drivers who prioritize phone use, eating, smoking, and babysitting the primary task in the car.

Drivers don’t see cyclists or bikes. Bicycles and motorcycles are the rarest vehicles on the road, and when drivers scan the road for obstacles, the schema they have allows for bulky four wheeled vehicles shaped like cars and trucks. Every EMS worker will tell you that they hear “I just didn’t see her!” when they’ve struck a bike. Hardly any driver will make the same claim if they slam into a firetruck.

But drivers sure notice bicycles at traffic lights. They should also note that most cyclists who are first in line at the light cannot accelerate at the same rate as a motor vehicle. So which do you guys want? You want us to blow a light or get in your way and slow down your progress? You want us to hold up the light because it takes us a bit longer to make a left than a motorized vehicle, or breeze through when the way is clear so no traffic is hindered by our presence? We can’t trip lights. We can’t accelerate at the same rate. We are less likely to survive a collision with you than you with us. You have blind spots; we don’t. You have a phone to your ear, windows up, a kid screaming in the back seat and the air and radio blasting. We can hear and see far more than you. We need to be able to dodge broken glass, broken pavement, and most oil slicks. We aren’t juking around to piss you off, to show off, to scoff laws, or to prove how fit we are and you ain’t. We’re trying to survive in an unsympathetic environment.

A few cyclists are jerks. I’ll bet the same portion of drivers are jerks. Except there are more of you, and you are bigger, more dangerous, and driving with far more hidden distractions. Cut us some slack and ignore those infractions which cause you no harm. I guarantee the driver beside you, behind you, and in front of you is busily breaking laws and ignoring driving safety recommendations, too.

124

You can complain all you like. You can bust a vein while pounding on the caps lock key. But until or unless you have ridden a bike or actually take action to do something about the infractions, you are just willfully deaf to cyclists complaints and guilty of assuming that all cyclists are deliberate scofflaws.

Here’s you: “Cyclists shouldn’t run red lights! It’s wrong!!”

Me: “Sometimes cyclists run lights because we can’t trip them or because we don’t want to hinder the traffic flow.”

Here’s you: “It’s still wrong!”

Me: “Do you sit at a light for hours until someone else comes along or camp out in the passing lane in a slower car? Would you rather we slow up traffic and call a public service offer to rescue us from a stalled light?”

You: "I don’t ride a bike! I don’t drive! I walk everywhere I go! "

Me: …

125

Except that I haven’t said anything about all cyclists being scofflaws. Ever. Troppus, that is only in your imagination.

You, on the other hand, have been making explicitly all-inclusive generalizations since you started posting in this thread. Only since you are making them about motorists then that makes it okay I guess? Because, because bikes are magic and carbon footprints???

What a ridiculous load.

126

Nope. But reminding the violently self-righteous bike haters that you are in far less danger from cyclists than from the drivers of cars who are doing far more distracting things hidden from your view should cool your ire. That is, if you’re a rational person.

127

Nah, my bike is mostly aluminum and chromoly and cost the environment far more than your walking kicks. You’re the true Greeney here, colander. I bow down to your humble mode of transport. Thanks for all you do for the trees, squirrels, and whathaveyou.

128

As I’ve mentioned before, I ride a motorcycle fairly often. Right now I’m sitting in my office, and my motorcycle is 8 floors below me in the parking garage. I rode it to work in Atlanta rush hour traffic, and I’ll ride it home this evening in the same. I absolutely agree with you in your above statement. Maybe you’ve heard the term SMIDSY, acronym for “sorry mate, I didn’t see you”. Applies to motorist interactions with cyclist and with motorcycles alike.

Got it. [Clinton] “I feel your pain”[/Clinton]

So what? Still doesn’t entitle me or you to break laws. Actually everything I’ve learned about coexisting with cars on the street is that you need to be hyper vigilent, and (here’s where you guys lose me) BETTER than they are. Better as in, better at paying attention, better at not being the sloppy drivers you rave against, and hey, how about better as in not being an ass on the road!!!

Do I use the maneuverability of my bike to my advantage in traffic? Yes, I do. But not in a way that violates laws or pisses off other people. Do I use the power/acceleration of my bike to my advantage in traffic? Yes, I do. Again, not in an illegal way, or in a way that pisses off other drivers. To me here is the difference, I’ll use an example that many have mentioned in this thread already.

It’s 5:30 am, and three commuters are on their way to work. One rides a motorcycle (me), one rides an aluminum racing bike (Troppus, let’s say), and one drives a car (we’ll say she is Suzy since colander doesn’t drive). They all have to go through an intersection with a turn only signal, which doesn’t ever turn green unless the sensor is triggered.
[ul]
[li]Suzy gets to a red light, and waits for it to turn red, even though there is not another car in sight. She knows her car will trip the sensor, and she’ll be gone in a few seconds.[/li][li]I, on my motorcycle, get to the same red light, and stop. I know from past experience, this sensor will not trip with just a motorcycle on it, but I wait a full cycle before moving forward enough to where I can see both ways, and go through the red light. I do this about twice a week.[/li][li]Troppus pedals to the intersection, does a quick left/right look at full speed, right through he goes.[/li][/ul]

Two people here violated the law. Equal? Not according to a LEO that I asked. This LEO said I (on the motorcycle) would not even get a second look, as long as the officer had observed that I had fully stopped, and that I only proceeded when absolutely safe to do so. The cyclist (sorry Troppus) would get a talk about obeying traffic signals, and exercising good judgement. He did say, I hesitate to admit, that Troppus would not get a ticket, or (as I would prefer) a night in the ironbar hotel (I kid, I kid).

And let’s clear up one thing. I don’t hate cyclists. I hate asshole cyclists. If that’s not you, then don’t be offended. If it is, then, well, that’s why we are in the pit. Grow up and act like a responsible member of society.

:smack:indeed.

129

As I said, I don’t break traffic rules either way and I’m rarely if ever on a road where bikes are unexpected. I’m not the asshole cyclist you are hating on, but I’m absolutely defending some of their actions.

Cyclists are demonized simply because it’s easier to witness their infractions. The very same people who pen letters to the editor and message board diatribes hating cyclists don’t bother with similar complaints about drivers. Hell, they don’t even notice them because they are likely to be just as guilty of driving with a ridiculous number of unsafe and illegal distractions. Unless you are the safest driver on the road and a total stickler for driving laws and recommendations, you, too, are a huge hypocrite for getting overly angry at a red-light running cyclist. And if you don’t ride a bicycle, you have even less knowledge, experience, and reason to understand why they ride a certain way or ignore some traffic lights. And if you don’t ride a bicycle, you have no idea how dangerous a world of blind, angry, entitled car drivers are and who gets the blame if a driver is slowed for any reason. Bikes just don’t get the same respect or room that a car does. Some cyclists are trying to be courteous by not obstructing the flow of traffic. Some are trying to predict what the distracted drivers nearby are going to do next, and trying to determine if they’ve been seen. Some cyclists are praying a driver doesn’t change lanes on top of them, slam on the brakes or edge them into the gutter to teach them a lesson, and some are just like the rest of you: trying to get to work in one piece.

What cyclists *aren’t *doing is driving while distracted. They have a few advantages as far as sights and sounds and will and probably should use those to their advantage whenever possible. Give them some credit and respect their mode of transport just as you would a fully loaded concrete truck. They have the same legal rights to the road even though they don’t have the same weight or ability to maim or kill.

130

You are full of shit. It’s pretty easy to notice a car driving down a street the wrong way, with no lights on at night, or driving on the sidewalk.

The greater problem is that it’s *hard *to notice the cyclist at night with no lights, wearing dark clothes, riding on the wrong side of the street.

If it’s really too much to ask cyclists to ride with traffic, stay off the sidewalks, use lights at night, and at least do a rolling stop at stop signs and red lights then maybe you have convinced me that all the money we spent putting in bike lanes and painting turn boxes was not worth it.

131

Is it too much to ask drivers to turn off cell phones while driving, ban eating and drinking in moving cars, make transporting unsecured pets illegal, force everyone over the age of 65 to take a driving test each year, force all folks on prescription meds to submit to random mental acuity and agility tests and restrict inexperienced drivers to daytime non rush hour traffic?

How many accidents with bikes have you had? With cars?

132

Oh, I don’t know about that. Just recently I saw a cyclist with ironic mutton chops swilling kombucha tea from a scrimshaw gourd and picking quinoa from his lip ring while adjusting his hemp underwear and using Google Glass to organize an Occupy flash mob on Twitter. It seems that stereotypes are being manifested everywhere.

133

I’d say it is reasonable to ask. In turn is it so much to ask drivers to only pass me when it is safe to do so, not tailgate me, not buzz me closely while passing, and not leaning on your horn when I am riding up a hill, and not trying to crowd me out of my lane, not drift into the bike lane, not right hook me because you want to save a few seconds.

I have pointed out several times that improved bicycle facilities increases ridership, which increases the amount of legal riding. Although those boxes aren’t exactly a big investment. SO please don’t act like cyclists owe you huge favors.

134

I’ve had three accidents with cars in 40 years of driving, none close to being fatal. I’ve had five close calls with bicycles in the last year:

One riding on the sidewalk across the entrance to a drive way as I was turning left, three barreling down the sidewalk and across the cross walk as I was pulling into the street (one of which was also going the wrong way on a one way street), and another who completely blew a stop sign and turned left in front of me at a 4-way stop. Three of those were on streets with marked bike lanes and turn boxes.

None of those may have been fatal, but probably a broken bone or two.

I won’t count the person who was riding at night, without lights, and decided to turn left in front of me as I saw him in time to stop without slamming on my brakes.

ETA: I’ve had a few close calls with cars in the last year too, but none of those would have caused the injuries that hitting (actually, being hit in most of the cases above) with a bicycle would have caused.

135

The difference is that NO ONE IN THIS THREAD IS DEFENDING DRIVERS WHO DO THAT.

Your argument is totally without merit: some drivers are bad too, so it’s OK if cyclists do things that endanger themselves. WTF?

136

The PROBLEM is that people get overexcited by relative minor illegal actions by cyclists that primarily endangers themselves at most while poo-pooing or outright handwaving driver antics that lead to such cyclist actions as I have noted several times already!

It is hard to even get some folks to acknowledge that cars can do dangerous things - this includes you!

Meanwhile, all you want to do is punish cyclists for the actions of a portion by removing some very limited facilities. Seriously, - the idea that anything done for cyclists is done as a favor to them and can be rescinded if they don’t show proper ‘gratitude’ - is repulsive.

137

I will keep that in mind when I am out pedestrian-ing and motorists wing me on the sidewalk once every fifteen minutes and usually run crosswalks when I am crossing them and bicyclists uniformly keep to the road and usually stop at occupied pedestrian walkways!

Hey, wait a minute.

138

You mean in the Bizarro world where you, the constant pedestrian, is the sole complainer on this issue? Because this conversation involves automobile drivers, too.

It is repulsive. Fortunately many municipalities recognize the recreational, fiscal, and tax benefits of unclogging the roadways and air and making a town hospitable to bikes. Many cities have cops on bike patrols, and many towns offer races as a tourism draw. Mine does all three, and it’s a smallish semi-rural area in the Appalachians. The nearby college town is peppered with cyclists and nearly all are welcomed. The infractions are far less dangerous than those committed by drivers you can’t see from your vantage point.

Cyclists shouldn’t ride on the sidewalk unless permitted. They should obey traffic laws but not at the risk of impeding a busy traffic flow. They should also continue to behave as targets because that is how a few old fogies in cars see them, and there will always be one or two red-faced sticklers and seekers of justice who will come after them with a vengeance. So keep it up, haters. Report infractions. Write letters to the editor and your local congressman. Rant on message boards. But you won’t prevent cyclists from sharing the road nor will you be legally forgiven if you cause an accident due to your carelessness or aggression towards them. Just back off and give them some room and let us get out of your way which is all we ever want to do.

139

Jeezus freakin Christ.

Maybe we can all agree on this. We’ll see.

[ul]
[li]Some percentage of automobile drivers are assholes[/li][li]Some percentage of motorcycle riders are assholes.[/li][li]Some percentage of pedestrians (sorry colander) are assholes[/li][li]and some percentage of cyclists are assholes.[/li][/ul]

The cyclists in this thread seem to separate automobile drivers into only two categories. The inattentive, distracted, phone-using, pet owning, baby feeding, doing everything but driving driver, and then the veins bulging, red faced out-to-kill-a-cyclist maniac. But there is a third category, the responsible driver who truly does not want to kill you. Maybe, just maybe you are guilty of overlooking these drivers because they don’t draw attention to themselves with their actions.

Maybe I’m just as guilty of overlooking the law abiding cyclist. I’m willing to admit that may be the case.

In the end, all of these drivers, cyclists, walkers, etc., are just people. With all the variety of good/bad/smart/stupid/nice/evil/humble/conceited as the general population.

What none of these categories is, is above the law. Saying “But you aren’t one of us, so you wouldn’t understand” is a bullshit escape clause.

140

I support bike lanes and vote for candidates who do as well. But I might not in the future if some large number of cyclists refuse to yield to pedestrians in cross walks, ride on the sidewalks, ride against the traffic, refuse to put brakes on their bikes, and ride at night without lights. Actions have consequences. I can’t believe y’all are arguing against things that will not only make you safer but will increase public support for better bicycle infrastructure.

I haven’t seen a single person in this thread argue that bicycles don’t have equal rights to the roads, or that bikes are bad, or even that most cyclists are bad.