Sick of being ashamed

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

As some of you may have noticed, I really like learning about guns. It’s natural to want to talk about what you’ve learned, and what you still want to learn. I enjoy lots of web and usenet resources on the matter, and like to exchange info anonymously. Sometimes I am stupid enough to actually do so face to face with people. The reactions I get IRL are quite different from the ones online; online, I am dealing with specific groups of people who know about and presumably enjoy knowing about guns.

In person, I am usually dealing with urban people, who have no experience and little knowledge of firearms. Their reactions range from thinking I am insane to thinking I am whacko, with a few thinking I am crazy. It is always worse with women. This is not a generalization about all three billion women; it is a description of my experience. Disagree with it if want, but by doing so you’re calling me a liar. Sure there was somebody named Annie Oakley who liked guns but I haven’t run into her at any neighborhood barbecues.

I enrolled in a career development seminar. They asked us to describe our hobbies. I told them, and got The Look. Mind you, this was from a woman whose job is, among other things, to ask people from all backgrounds what their hobbies are. But she just couldn’t repress The Look, which says some combination of,
(a) you should be ashamed,
(b) you scare me and where is a cop when you need one,
© I am parkinsonian and I have no control over my facial expressions,
(d) please don’t say “gun” again because my pet clay pigeon was killed by one,
(e) please don’t say “gun” again because if you add a -t to the end of that word it rhymes with a nasty word,
(f) hahahaha now I know all of your political and social opinions! Normal people don’t like guns! Normal people don’t act that way! And no you can’t have a Pepsi!

Sure, I could pick up and move to the country, get new friends, and join the career seminar run out of the back of the Clay Pigeon Center, but I’m not going to. I like my city. From now on, I’ll just be sure to have a couple of whiskeys before I talk about my hobbies, so as to not be so thin-skinned. Just kidding, I don’t drink. By the way, if you do drink, you are crazy and should be ashamed, since I don’t share your tastes. Just kidding.

Remember, ignorance about guns is good. Guns can be associated with death. It is good to be very stupid when it comes to anything that could possibly be associated with death. All guns are either AK-47s or Uzis. Forget your disease names. Mix up facts about wars. And if you see a headstone, run over it with your car to pretend you didn’t see it.

2

If this is the reference I think it is (“All I wanted was a Pepsi! And she wouldn’t give it to me!”), bravo for your excellent taste in music.

I agree with the spirit of your last paragraph: education is always better than ignorance. In the case of guns, it teaches one respect for their destructive power (You will keep the gun pointed downrange. It is not an option for the gun to be pointed anywhere else but downrange. If, by some warping of the laws of time and space, the gun happens to end up pointed anywhere but downrange while you are holding it, you will surrender the gun, go home, and will not so much as look at a gun again until I decide that you are ready to do so.), and how to be safe when handling them. Perhaps you should treat your gun hobby the same way I treat my comic book hobby: best left unrevealed until there’s some context within which your interlocutor can judge it. :slight_smile:

3

Boris,

If it’s any help to you, I am an NRA member who doesn’t even own a gun. Oh and I am a single woman.

To some that sounds silly. Personally, I see nothing wrong with owning guns. I grew up around hunters and have many friends that hunt so owning a gun is a part of my life although I don’t have one. That will be changing soon though. I plan on getting one and gaining education.

I don’t do or think things to be popular, I do or think of things out of my conviction and my beliefs. If people give you a hard time about owning guns (or even discussing them) then I think there is a lot of ignorance and misinformation there.

We focus on Columbine or Peduka not remembering that these kids got these guns essentially illegally. We allow ourselves to be wrapped up in the Million Mom March, which forgets there are 22,000 laws on the books already about guns ( I think that’s the right figure ) yet our law enforcement agencies don’t enforce those laws…how many damned laws do you have to set in place before you realize Joe Citizen isn’t the problem it’s the damn criminal? (could start a Libertarian debate here but I wont…sitting on her hands for a sec)

There are many in my life that think I am nuts, but firearms are not deadly, it’s the lack of education of them and the criminals that are deadly with firearms.

There is not one person in my life I have ever known to be harmed or killed by a fire arm that was not harmed or killed by a criminal. One of my friends was murdered with the tube top she was wearing…not quite the deadly weapon of choice but was strangled. Oh and criminals don’t really go through the proper channels to gain a fire arm. (yes Mister FBI person, I am seeking to commit armed robbery and kill the liquor store owner ((has happened in my life and the fuckers weren’t even from our city)) I knew the guy personally a sweet and gentle man.)

Anyhow, there are those of us that are not “mainstream” and don’t suck up to popular public opinion. We may be hard to find because many of us are persecuted (sp?) like you have been. But we are out there and some of us will stand up to the critics.

So hopefully this sets your mind at ease that there are those of us out there that are not afraid to discuss the topic of guns. Even a lot of us women! ( I so wanna go political on this, but refraining! Arrrrrgh! )

< me sees this becoming a GD thread, if so, Unca or Euty please email me to let me know, I haven’t been a GD participant in a while > :wink:

4

Boris, I feel your pain.

Actually, I don’t, since I’m not a gun aficionado, and therefore don’t get The Look, but I can imagine. I admire you for pursuing your interest despite its current bad press. You at least have the courage of your conviction that you are doing nothing wrong and aren’t a weirdo. Press on.

I think what you need to do is take a slightly more aggressive stance when you get The Look. Rather than sink back into your seat averting your eyes with a sheepish look, which validates the other person’s contempt, you need to have a few witty, perhaps caustic, but not devastating or alarming, replies handy. You can size up the situation and your audience and choose the appropriate response.

This may not make the other person realize the error of their ways, but observers to the conversation might clue in faster, and at least the “Looker” will realize that they’ve offended and that you have a spine. Also, it will make you feel less ashamed and give you the satisfaction of scoring a hit on an intolerant, ignorant person.

Unfortunately, I can’t think of any responses at the moment, but if I do, I’ll chime in. How bout it, folks? Little help here.

5

techchick - you aren’t alone.

I’m single, am a member of the NRA too, and don’t own a gun. - right now - for reasons I’ve expounded on at length in other threads so won’t bore you with now. (But have owned them in the past and will at some point in the future.)

6

I get the look for a totally unrelated reason when stupid conservative straight people ask me about my wife/girlfriend and I say his name is Mark and he is more of a husband/boyfriend. It is even better when they throw a fit because it wasn’t the answer they wanted to hear. I am sure that it is exactly the same reaction.

HUGS!
Sqrl

7

Opposite here: I own a gun, yet I’m not a member of the NRA. I’m sure I’ll join in the next couple of years, though. And I’ll probably get my concealed-carry permit within the year. Ahh, it’s good to live in Texas, where pretty well everybody grew up around guns…

If you’re in the market for a gun, the first place to go is a gun show. The selection is huge, so you’re more likely to be able to find what you want at a reasonable price, plus you can actually pick up the guns on display and find out what feels good in your hand.

Failing that, there’s at least one place on the net that has decent prices: gunbroker.com, kind of a gun lover’s eBay. Gunbroker can also help you get a feel for the prevailing market price for whatever gun model you’re thinking of buying, even if you don’t plan to buy through them.

I’m currently on the prowl for a Walther P99 and possibly a Walther PPK or a Sig Sauer P232. Y’all lemme know if you have any leads…

8

Well, I guess it’s no secret to anyone on this board that I am an NRA member, an NAHC member, and a VHA member. I am also a veteran, a former firefighter, a former security guard, and presently work in the petrochemical industry. I have traveled all over the world and most recently spent a year working in Colombia. …and I own firearms. Since I own several firearms and compete with firearms, some would label me as a “gun nut”, but I take no offense at that. I have been associated with many people who are familiar with firearms and not one of my acquaintances has had any problems with firearms vis-a-vis the law enforcement establishment or private citizenry. In short - what’s the big deal? I am in compliance with the law. If and when the law changes, I will have to change with it. Until then, I’m good to go - in every sense of that phrase.

I have made my opinions on the private ownership of firearms well known in this forum as well as others, so I won’t belabor the point. I will only state this: a firearm is a tool to be used or misused by the user of that tool. A firearm has no personality in and of itself.

Boris B: I would be pleased to discuss firearms with you any time. I am a shooter, hunter, and reloader in Alaska (where the stigma that you refer to is less pervasive). I have written a few articles about home defense and preparing to venture into the wilds on hunting and fishing trips. I am especially interested to know if you are a hunter and where you are located. Maybe we can swap hunting trips someday.

9

Max Torque: Interesting to note that you are looking for a Walther P99. It is very similar to the Smith & Wesson Model 99. As a matter of fact, many components of the SW99 are made by Walther! Anyway, was your choice influenced by the recent turn of events concerning Smith & Wesson? I know several companies and many friends who have pledged to avoid S&W products. In my opinion, the SW99 is a better version of the pistol, and I own several S&W firearms now. Consequently, I am torn between being a long-time S&W fan and showing my indignation for the recent actions of S&W. “Horns of a dilemma,” indeed…

10

Boris, i don’t own any firearms, i am not in the NRA, i would never want to own a firearm, though i have extensive training in many firearms and am quite good at using them. I do however have a nice collection of really sharp and shiny swords :smiley: some not so shiny, and it’s still growing. I get that look too when someone asks about hobbies. usually runs like this: “What are your hobbies?” with a big smile…
me:“oh, rock climbing, capoeira, sword collecting :D”
them: strange look, back a step or two, face contorts slightly as if gas just won’t exit painlessly from their rear but they don’t want anyone to know… “oh, ok, who else?”

so i understand man. and i encourage you to go forth with your collecting and studying and being about your business with the knowledge that you shouldn’t feel ashamed, rather, they should be ashamed at being so ignorant and judgemental.

11

Hmmm, I may have to nose around for a S&W 99…I wanted the Walther for a couple of reasons, one being that Walther has a superb longevity/reliability reputation, another being that I really need to get a 9mm pistol for target practice (those .40 S&W and .357 SIG cartridges get expensive). Plus, I got a chance to feel one at a gun show (can’t find one locally), and it fit my hand extremely well. And, as you mentioned, I’m a bit dis-inclined to give money to Smith & Wesson these days, what with their kowtowing to government legal pressure.

But, thanks for the advice, I’ll look into the S&W. Generally, I’m a Sig Sauer lover; my sole current handgun is a Sig Pro 2340, and MAN is it sweet to shoot.

12

Gun owner and NRA member here. Boris, stick to your beliefs; this is one way firearm hobbyists can spread the word that gun ownership and use is far more mainstream than some people would like others to believe. I actually have target shooting listed as a hobby on my resume; it’s in my SD profile, too. 80,000,000 gun owners can’t be wrong.

It’s is kind of odd how some people react to you when you start telling hunting or shooting stories. Often they look at you like you just admitted to being hermaphoditic pedophile. Of course, I blame this on the media, with all their stories about scary, evil guns, the unthinking public has been brainwashed.

I’ll second the techchick here and say that I don’t personally know anyone who has been harmed by, or even threatened with, a firearm. I did, however, have a very good lady friend who was murdered with a screwdriver in North Carolina just two years ago. That son of a bitch got his comeuppance when the prison guards shot him while trying to escape. So, there’s a small amount of justice in the world. His partner is going to be in jail forever after his conviction for a second murder.

This is the gun UncleBeer currently covets, the Browning Buckmark 5.5" Target Model.

[Moderator note: I’m not going to move this to GD… yet. If a debate shapes up, then I will. This appears to be merely story sharing right now.]

13

Boris, I know that Look. I’ve given that Look. I know what you are saying is true. I used to be one of those women that freaked at the thought of someone owning a gun.
Mind you, I grew up in New Jersey, the suburbs of NYC, where all my life guns were reflected negatively, used for killing people. Plain and simple, this was all I knew about guns.
Then I moved to the middle of Pennsylvania, where if you don’t own a gun and don’t hunt, well, there is something wrong with you. So I learned about guns. I learned about hunting. I realized that these are normal, everyday people, not crazed homicidal maniacs. I learned hunting is a sport, I learned how for young boys and many girls, going out that first time is a rite of passage into manhood. People just need to be educated. I do not own a gun, I am not sure if I ever will, but I understand now why people do.

14

The song Lux Fiat and I are talking about is “Institutionalized” by Suicidal Tendencies. By the way, telling people you like Suicidal Tendencies is a great way to get The Look.

By the way, SqrlCub, my girlfriend’s name is Mark too. She must be two-timing us! Seriously though, I was just thinking about the analogies between brickbats from the right directed at gays, and brickbats from the left directed at gun-fanciers. I don’t have anything overly pithy to say about it, other than that it’s funny how political agitators always like to talk about the other side’s agenda. As in, sure I’ve raised $10 million for my cause, and taken every legislative assistant this side of the Pecos out for cocktails, but heaven forbid that I want anything political.

psycat90 [All said in chorus] Hello psycat. My name is SocrMom. I have been Lookless since '73. My husband left me in '68 after he decided to stop being an enabler. While we were married, every time I would crack open a bottle of Grandma’s, or pour myself a tumbler (or five) of Tennessee Sour Mash GunTerror, he would just smile sheepishly and say he didn’t really like guns, he just kept them around to protect the cats from ravenous raccoons.

Soulsling … capoeira? Yowza! I’ve never met anyone who actually knows anything about it, other than that it (allegedly) involves razors and The Samba. How do you pronounce it, anyway?

15

thats funny Boris, razors and the samba. good one.
nope, it’s nothing like that really, sort of…
and it’s something you play. as in: i play Capoeira, pronounced something like Cop-oh-ay-ra, roll the r and the ay is slight, not heavy. emphasis on the 1st and third syllables.

16

And everybody else, thanks for you feedback. I think you’re right, public opinion is an irrational force of nature which is best ignored when it can’t be avoided. I tend to want a lot of validation, especially from women, and it’s just not forthcoming. I don’t bounce back as fast as I should. DAVEW suggests that I stay assertive, which is exactly what I should do. Unfortunately, The Look always eats my self-assurance for lunch and belches loudly after the meal. I think a lot of this would be easier if I were older. If a 60-year-old with a British accent and a pith helmet tells you he’s got a collection of .577-caliber double rifles he used to lions with, he’s not going to get any dirty looks or gasps. And if he did, he wouldn’t care. Gunphobic urban women can certainly be intimidating, but I suppose they wouldn’t compare to a lion or Cape buffalo… As an youngish (or formerly young) white male I fit the serial killer stereotype, at least in its simplistic demographic sound-bite form, so it’s easy for those with good imaginations to sentence me to Social Isolation for the Criminally Insane.

By the way, upon reading my goofy response to psycat90, it looks like I am comparing her to an alcoholic. Oops. It’s just because I was stretching obscure metaphors; I really didn’t mean it that way. Rather, I was comparing her admission of a former state as being humorously remiscent of the intro to a 12-step program.

MaxTorque, are there any conversion kits from .40 to 9mm for SP2340s? I know you can go from .40 -> .357 with a simple barrel swap, but I thought there might be some slide-and-barrel combos that would do a .40 -> 9mm conversion. Of course that might be almost as expensive as getting a complete nine, and you’d be getting an aftermarket slide… Anyway, I really dig the caliber-conversion idea, and wish more manufacturers would make conversion products standard, instead of everybody having to fight over one the 200 rimfire conversion kits for a given weapon, like they always seem to be doing online.

17

Well Boris, if you are getting the Look, you might as well go all-out. Fly to Yemen and get an RPG-7. This will certainly get the Look, but people will be very scared of you and will back down quickly. Btw, RPG stands for Rocket Propelled Grenade. Heh heh heh. The Russians make great toys.

18

Being military, you know my stance on guns.

Although I currently don’t own any, I think they’re neat!
They look cool, feel good in the hand, go “BANG!”, and put holes in things…What more could you ask? :slight_smile:

I also believe that gun control means using both hands.

I don’t own any currently because we have kids in the house. The only way I’d be able to have one would be unloaded, and when you need it, you don’t have the time to load it, which makes for a very expensive, short club.

So I have two large dogs, and if the intruder still wants to play, I have 3 feet of sharp cold steel.

Look at it this way, Boris; You’re mentioning weapons to people is a way to separate the wheat from the chaff; and it sounds like you meet a lot of chaff.

19

I get The Look too, Boris, for the exact opposite reason. Being a prison guard I work with a fairly conservative crowd. Well “fairly conservative” may not be the correct term; most of my coworkers are sure the wrong side won the civil war and some of them feel that way about WWII as well.
(No joke, I’ve heard people I work with refer to Barry Goldwater and Rush Limbaugh as liberals.)

Now, I’m in favor of more gun control than currently exists; not banning, but things like registration and background checks. But I’ve learned to keep these opinions to myself. Because you haven’t seen The Look until you’ve said you can see the sense of a three day waiting period to a man who has a machine gun buried in a barrel in his back yard.

20

tehehe. uh, make that adulthood.