It’s bad enough we have the USA PATRIOT act. Now we want to establish a network of snitches that will rival those of Cold-War era Eastern Europe?
Bush wants 1 in 24 Americans to be in this program. The East German secret police was about 1 in 66.
Here’s a straight news link:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/14/1026185141232.html
And an opinion piece from a liberal website:
http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=495
Say it with me now, people–“Your papers, please?”
This is disgusting. I just don’t even know how to react to my government encouraging my postman and meter-reader to go snooping around my home. It’s just a creepy, overwhelming fear that we–as a nation–will let these kinds of things go on and on until nothing could be done to stop them even if we tried. And the fact that this is all being done in the name of the already-tired “War on Terror” is completely disturbing. When will this war be over? Who are the specific targets? What lines are we unwilling to cross in the name of anti-terror?
answers–When we feel like it. Whomever we say. None, damn it, this is WAR!
No way will all these new powers be revoked when the dust settles–instead, we’ll just be left with a marked reduction in the freedoms we’re supposedly trying to protect. :mad:
Very nice. This article is from an Australian source I don’t recognize- can anyone tell me if it’s a reliable source? Is there any link to the actual proposal?
I didn’t see this thread, (I looked for one, honest!) and I started another on the same subject.
Here is the official website of the project.
Argh.
Here’s the government website on the program.
An editorial from the Washington Post
A news story from the New York Times (requires registration).
The program itself is real, however the form it’s going to take is very much shrouded at the moment.
There’s at least one other thread right here in the Pit (which, upon preview Larry Mudd has already given the link, damn I’m slow) about this one in IMHO I think at least one more in GD
What I want to know is if I get a two-way wrist watch/radio/TV like Dick Tracy use to have. How about a special pair of glasses that will allow me to see through walls and (I can only hope) clothing. Is there a decoder ring and a badge?
I wonder where that Aussie site got their “1 in 24” figure. I didn’t see it anywhere else (I could have missed it though, I only skimmed the other articles).
Ya know, I would agree with this if this were more of a grassroots or private volunteer system. However, this reeks of trying to legislate morality. I don’t like it. . .
Besides, if a “ship’s captain” saw what I have in my house, I’m sure it’d cause a row. . .
Tripler
Yes, I just said “row”.
I’m wondering how many voyeurs will use this scheme as a defense.
The government mouthpieces say this is merely a formal means by which ordinary people can report suspicious behavior. In other words, it’s an official tip line. Got no problem with that.
If they’re recruiting observers… that’s a whole different kettle of fugu.
Imagine: Somebody goes to court with this, and the prosecutor reports that the defendant came under suspicion because a neighbor followed him, slipped into his basement, and rummaged around. That evidence gets tossed out faster than a batch of your aunt’s Christmas coconut-raisin cookies.
I know some people aren’t happy about fluoride in the water, but when did they start stupidifying the plumbing in D.C.?
I can’t see how this won’t be abused.
What’s the plan anyway? Cable guy goes out on a call and sneaks a peak in Achmed’s closet and finds a nuclear device?
No. You know what’s going to happen … cable guy is going to see a bong beside the couch and next thing you know the ATF is storming my apartment, and I end up in a gimp mask in John Ashcroft’s basement.
This is a really bad idea.
From the “official website”: Will I receive an I.D., plaque, or proof of volunteer status? Proof of volunteer status will vary depending on which program you are involved with. Many offer I.D. cards or training certificates.
Oooh boy I.D. cards and training certificates. Makes you feel all official-like and justified when you report that weird cat lady down the street.
This also from the web site (my emphasis): “The Citizen Corps Councils will leverage existing resources – most communities already have a strong team that brings together such sectors as first responders and volunteer groups. To this team will be added elected officials, faith-based groups, and those that support the community substructure such as neighborhood commissions, water and utility providers, major industries, educational institutions, and transportation authorities.”
I’m sure the “faith-based groups” will have some good input about what constitutes “suspicious activity.”
Canada, here I come!
Can this be one of those instances where Godwin’s Law shouldn’t apply?
Because I’d be a skinny white guy if this isn’t reminiscent of the Hitler Youth.
“Be Safe: Be Suspicious”
“Suspicion Breeds Confidence”
“Trust in haste, Regret at leisure”
“Mind that parcel. Eagle eyes can save a life.”
[sub]Unapologetically stolen from Terry Gilliam’s Brazil[/sub]
“If Mommy is a commie, then you gotta turn her in.”
–“The John Birch Society” by the Chad Mitchell Trio
For an administration that says it is defending freedom, Mr. Bush’s crew sure seem fond of borrowing tactics from the totalitarian playbook. Where else do we see children turning in their parents, neighbors informing on neighbor? If I’d wanted to live in North Korea, I’d have moved to Pyongyang!
It’s the Sydney Morning Herald. The article has a postscript about the author.
No need to worry about the SMH, per se. But the author is questionable. Well, he is to me.
I just want you all to know I’m watching this thread.
Love,
Seven “TIPS” Graylands
Fuck. I’m nearly as dumbstruck by this as I was on September 11th, watching the towers burn and fall.
Here’s what the Sydney Morning Herald says about the author of the story (see the first link in the op, bolding mine):
“Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the movement for US law enforcement accountability. He has lived in Sweden since 1997, **seeking political asylum ** there, saying he was the victim of life-threatening assaults in retaliation for his accountability efforts.”
Anybody seeking political asylum from the US automatically falls into the tin foil hat category as far as I am concerned. At the very least, it is a publicity stunt on his part to help him get published.
His take on the whole TIPS thing sounds way over the edge. It sounds like national crime watch to me, not an progam designed by the Stasi. With that said, I am not oblivious to the dangers of such a program or the overall weakening of individual rights that has come since 9/11. As US citizens we need to remain vigilant and aware of what our goverment is doing, but I hardly think this program really necesitates the kind of hysteria that the author or some of the posters seem to imply.