Is that even allowed on this board? Should somebody report him?
I am sorry if I led you to that conclusion, but I was talking about governmental or quasi- governmental bodies. *That was the context. * The context was that the “will of the people” was being subverted by the racist Jim Crow politics in the State assembly, and while I will agree to the “racist and Jim Crow” part, I can’t agree to the will of the people, as I have seen nothing that shows that a majority of the people wanted it gone.
Neither the town nor the regents lifted a finger to attempt to remove the statue. The Governor even said the Regents could do it *without *petitioning the Historical comm. So that Law was no real bar to it’s removal.
Yes, individuals petitioned the Historical comm, and that’s great, but while the Comm was considering their petition, the statue was torn down by a mob.
There were lawful, peaceful ways to move Silent Sam. But other than a couple of individuals, no attempt was made by any elected group representing the People.
I gave *several cites, *. So, calling my claims “cite free” is false.
Where are your cites?
Yeah, I read the criticism of the study, and their response to that criticism. I wish I hadn’t given that cite earlier, TBH, because it turns out to be poor evidence of the undemocratic shenanigans going on in NC.
But those shenanigans definitely exist, and they’re pretty bad even compared to other states. I’ve started several threads about them in Elections, if y’all want to go search, and there’ve been oodles of lawsuits over voter suppression and gerrymandering and misleading amendments on the ballot in an attempt to remove the separation of powers and so on and so forth. Relying, as DrDeth does, on Phil Berger for a clear view of anything in North Carolina politics betrays a basic unfamiliarity of what’s been going on here over the last decade.
So, yeah: although we’re not Cuba, we’re not living in a functioning democracy here in North Carolina. Nor were we in 1913, nor were we in 1965.
So Left Hand of Dorkness, what’s that? A cite, is it not? So, you have claimed three times I give no cites, even tho saw this cite? So *saying *I posted no cites, while *knowing *I posted cites- what would that be called?
Some interesting points about the commission in this article:
The commission seems to be a bit of a sham when it comes to removal. They seems authorized only to shuffle them around.
Yup. And the legislature has been very clear over the past decade or so that they’re moving to fill all the boards and commissions they can with party loyalists, and also moving to remove power from urban (and more progressive) areas of the state. There is no reason to expect that the commission would honor the wishes of Chapel Hillians, nor that the governor would have found himself able to exercise any authority to remove the statues.
This is all ignorant armchair quarterbacking, telling a movement fifty years in the making that they didn’t do it right, without conducting any real research first to find out what they tried or the conditions in which they operated.
Let’s just sum up for DrDeth. The Governor of the state requested that statues be moved to a different location and was denied because the move wasn’t required to preserve the statues. So, some board of Regents is going to make the same request on a trumped up ‘public safety’ claim and get the nod?
As far as I’m concerned, we have identified 3 more statues for angry mobs to tear down. Perhaps then, the Commission will get the idea that moving these monuments to racism someplace safe, like a Museum of Racist Assholes, will be required to preserve them.
A few felony convictions might deter mob action as well.
Oh yes, that couldn’t possibly backfire.
What is your standard for a functioning democracy? It sounds like one where you approve of the outcome.
a winnar is you, puddleglum. Take your victory for engaging in serious, thoughtful discussion.
An interesting article from an alum:
If ‘Silent Sam’ Returns to his Hedestal, This Alum Will Move On.
He noticed the same thing I noticed about the protesters, superficially, but pointed out something I hadn’t considered, about WHY there were relatively few black students among the protesters.
It’s even more reason to call bullshit on Scylla’s anonymous student who claims someone shouted “Get out of here, whitey!” at him. I mean, for fuck’s sake, who even talks like that?
It sounds a lot like the crap the white supremcists were making up when Black Panther was in the theaters. All the stories of white guys being threatened by black patrons at the ticket booth. Not a scrap of evidence, not even a shaky smartphone video. But taken as gospel among certain social media slugs.
They could have removed it before 2015. And neither Chapel hill or the Univ even tried.
The Governor said they can remove it now as it is a hazard.
This is all ignorant armchair quarterbacking, telling other posters that they didn’t post cistes when they did, without conducting any research at all, just vague insults.
No, the Governor said they would remove it NOW,* without* the Commission’s approval, as it was a hazard. Which clearly it was.
the GOP who now runs the state of NC are all about “local control” and small government. Of course that does not apply when local governments want to do something they don’t like - which led to the infamous HB2 law based on a Charlotte law. HB2 was only changed because of pressure from business and the NCAA.
In the case of Silent Sam the NC GOP are already saying if it does not go back up, then UNC funds get cut. So we will see if UNC backs down and puts it back or if there is a fight. The UNC system board of governors is about 80% GOP members since they are all appointed by the GOP run state assembly/senate.
Interesting how the people want felony convictions and heavy police intervention for tearing down a racist statue don’t have a similar sense of outrage over the same University and their history of letting people get away with rape. The fact that outrage seems to be limited to ‘they violated a racist statue’ and not ‘they violated a living person’ is… interesting. Feds: UNC-CH mishandled campus sex assault cases
My guess is because one is a monument honoring the greatness of white men, and the other is simply a bunch of whiny women.
This was just brought to my attention. While couched cutely, it’s still an accusation of lying and against the rules.
Warning issued. Please don’t do it again.