If let’s say I were to do an online crime that is illegal in my home country (the us) but in in another country (the Philippines ) could I still be persecuted when I went to the us?
-and no I’m not talking about anything involving sex or sexual pictures.
Legal issues are best suited for IMHO.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
Does the online nature of your alleged crime involve the use of any domains in the US?
Is your US email used, your US bank account, the counterparties US bank account, US email server, etc.?
If any of the electronic uses can be tied back to the US, then yes, you can be arrested and potentially prosecuted in the US. As an example see all of the FIFA people being extradited to the US for criminal activity.
If what you are doing is the equivalent of shoplifting at a local convenient store in Hong Kong and doesn’t involve any US interest, then I don’t think the US authorities would care.
Now as far as being persecuted, that can happen anywhere including this message board
In the other thread (now closed) you started, you wrote:
(my bold)
So… you swatted someone in the US from your computer in the Philippines?
I am not a lawyer. But if the authorities in the US know you did it, then I would assume you could be arrested when you’re back if they’re actively looking for you. Or, if you’re a particularly bad guy, you could be extradited (I guess; I don’t know what extradition between the US and Philippines is like).
Your best bet is probably to avoid breaking the law in the US, especially if you plan to come back. And swatting is an incredibly dangerous thing for all involved, so if that’s what you did, I would encourage you to reexamine your choices,
IANAL, YMMV - From what I’ve read, if it impacts the USA, they can charge you.
Some crimes, like piracy (Arrr, the real piracy) airline hijacks and underage sex tourism, the USA like many other countries asserts jurisdiction no matter where it happens. Sex tourism, IIRC, applies to residents of the USA travelling abroad to engage in illicit acts, so there’s that US connection. Piracy on the high seas has been a crime that many countries have claimed the right to prosecute - which is why they can shoot Somalis trying to take ships. I think the USA also reserves the right to prosecute those who murder US citizens no matter where in the world the killing happened.
In other cases, a US connection however tenuous may be the grounds for charges. Noriega was conspiring to import drugs into the USA. He didn’t have to be in the USA to do so. Kim dotcom was allegedly inducing US residents to violate copyrights, and some of his servers were in the USA, and he took payments from people in the USA.
So if you prank-call a USA 911 number from a foreign country, you are still violating US law, because you are causing trouble for the USA. If it’s worth the trouble, they can extradite you. If you do so in the Philippines, to a Philippine equivalent of 911, nobody cares in the US.
Extradition typically requires the crime to be a crime in both countries - so for example, draft dodgers fro the USA were free and clear in Canada, because draft dodging was not a crime in Canada, we did not have a draft at the time of the Vietnam war. However, desertion from the military after being signed up was a crime in both countries. (And IIRC it ahs to meet a level of seriousness in terms of possible sentence - you can’t be extradited for littering.)
there is one gotcha, however. Read about some Canadians going to Burning Man. When crossing the border into the USA they were asked if they had ever smoked dope and answered honestly. “yes, back in college years ago.” They were then denied entry, since they had admitted to committing what was a felony in the USA - even though never caught, charged, or convicted. of course, US citizens arriving home travelling on their US passport cannot be denied entry (eventually), but any foreign citizen can be denied entry at the whim of the border patrol agent.
^ This.
Coming back from a trip to Colombia many many years ago, I remember that there was a long walk way in the airport from the plane to customs. At the end of that very long hall were 5 heavyset cops in their early 30s in sweat pants, sweatshirts, and sneakers
standing and watching all the passengers walk towards them. I guessed that they wanted to see who looked suspicious or nervous and it seemed understood that if anyone tried to run towards an exit, they’d be tackled like Tom Brady with an under-inflated football.
Now, I’m not saying that the police WOULD do that to you at customs… after you’ve committed a crime against the US… and then attempted to come back to the US through customs…
I’m just saying that its funny to think that they MIGHT.
“…Wait…that just might be a Personal Foul. There are yellow flags Everywhere. Todd Bowles is shaking his head. This looks like its going to cost a LOT of yardage…”
“Possibly an ejection.”
“…And possibly an ejection… yeah, it doesn’t look like he’s even trying to get up…”
[Looks at new member’s first post and username] :dubious:
Um, since when is smoking weed a felony in the US? If you’re just talking about possession you typically get fines and or some local jail time dictated by how much you have or if you have paraphernalia, but not prison. I could see if you were conspiring to sell or actually did sell in huge amounts.
Well… if you’re a big fat German living in New Zealand that created a site that could be used to breach copyright rules, you may be extradited to the US to serve an unreasonably long sentence for doing so.
However, if you’re YouTube, which does basically the same thing from the US, good luck if you’re trying to extradite them to another country… It won’t happen.
I would take the post at face value and not bog yourself down in misdemeanor or felony. Customs has lots of leeway and discretion as to who they admit or not. Apparently if you want to travel to Canada from the USA, an arrest for DUI or illegal drug possession/use is grounds for denying entry. Countries play tit for tat all of the time so one might expect US Customs to refuse entry as well.
Remember, marijuana is illegal under federal law, regardless of what any states may be doing. Customs is federal. They don’t give a rat’s ass what any state law may say.
As a lawyer, I wouldn’t describe anything that might result in criminal prosecution as a “simple legal problem.” And most federal criminal laws may be asserted against US citizens extraterritorially.
DUI is in the federal criminal code in Canada. There are provincial traffic act vilations too, but Impaired Driving can get you tossed in jail. So while it might vary in seriousness from state to state in the USA, it is a serious criminal offense in Canada, and from what I understand, they WILL bar you entry.
As I understood the warning about weed, if you admit you smoked pot, you admitted to possession, which is … illegal. There was a website discussion somewhere about people with border hassles, and someone mentioned that under a certain amount (15g?? Substantially less than the trafficking charge threshold, anyway) you could get a waiver and be admitted to the USA with a long paperwork hassle - but if the arrest in Canada was several decades ago, good luck finding a police report that describes the weight of the seized substance. Of course, you do not need to even be convicted in Canada, it’s up to the border patrol to decide whether to bar you. The Burning Man example was that you don’t even have to have been caught or charged in Canada, if the agent thinks you committed a felony, sucks to be you.
About 20 years ago, we had a plant manager who was travelling to Washington DC for a business conference; by the time he reached Toronto he was somewhat inebriated, and failed to show sufficient deference to the US border agent. The guy barred him based on a juvenile conviction for car theft 40 years before, and “you look like a fugitive we’re searching for”. I.e. “Why? Just because I can do this.”