I’ve joined a dad band at my daughter’s elementary school as a vocalist. I also get the occasional invitation to sing with a jazz combo led by some friends of mine.
Here’s the problem: I’m good, but I’m a self-taught singer, and they don’t have any music theory classes at the University of Singing Along With a CD Until You Know the Song. I can’t read music. When I’m proposing a song to a group I’m sitting in with, they ask me what key I sing it in, and I never know what to say except (for example) “whatever key Sinatra sings it in.” I hate looking like such a rank amateur.
How, without having sheet music in front of me, can I tell what key a song is in?
But a funny thing happened once in one of my chorus’ concerts. A song began with a chord from the piano, and the chorus began singing on the next beat. For some reason something was in the way, and the pianist couldn’t see the conductor, and missed his cue. The chorus came in on the next beat anyway . . . in the correct key. I have no idea how that happened.
In my experience the singer starts and the pianist finds the key on the piano. There’s always a bit of shifting around when you’re playing by ear.
The more experienced singers know the key they are in. Helps to know which notes are sharp or flat. But the piano gives everyone a standard pitch to follow.
At rehearsals, do you just stand outside on the front porch? Seems inexperienced singers often can’t find the key and don’t know when to come in. rimshot
If the group you’re sitting in with are experienced musicians, then they’ve had the experience of playing with inexperienced musicians (inexperienced singers in particular).
If you’re talented, they won’t mind that you are inexperienced. If you’re untalented, they wouldn’t care if you had tons of experience. So long as you’re just doing local performances in your own community, “just for fun” jam sessions, events for the kids’ schools- they’ll soon enough learn what you’re capable of. By the way, the more you sit in with them the more you’ll learn and grow. So, “what you’re capable of” will increase.
panache45 is pretty much right. You need perfect pitch to name a key on a dime. However, you only need “pretty good” pitch to find a key working on a musical instrument. So, if they ask what key you want and you don’t know: Just sing a few bars. Someone in the band should be able to pick up a guitar / sit at the piano and listen to the notes you’re singing then tinker along until they’re able to match you- thus finding the key.
For songs that you like to do regularly, it’s best for you to make note of the key once you find out what it is. Either just remember “I like to do Strangers in The Night in Bb”, or keep a notebook with the key jotted down and always have the notebook with you.
Working with other musicians, you may even find out that although you’ve sung a song in the same key as Sinatra while singing along to the CD a different key might be better for you. You may be able to competently pull off a song in E, but the band might listen to your performance in E and suggest doing it D. Give it a try, and you may find that you sing the song even better (as long as you’ve got musical accompaniment, singing in a key different than the key you’ve learned won’t be a problem- provided it’s in your range- as it’s all relative and you find your notes in the accompaniment).
This is sort of what we did today – During the break before I sat in, the usual singer took me over to the keyboard player and had him play a few bars, while I sang along softly, to make sure we were on the same page.
No problem on the key, but when I took the mike and they started playing, they played the song (“I’ve Got You Under My Skin,” if anyone is wondering) WAYYYY slower than I’m used to – a slow swing instead of bossa nova. That took some getting used to, for sure.
There’s cellphone video of me singing with them… if I put it up on YouTube I’ll link to it here if anyone wants me to.
Oh, and by the way, I don’t need a notebook to remember how I like to do strangers in the night, if you know what I mean. B^P
To me, that’s not very surprising. When you’re rehearsing a piece for a long time, like in a choir, you’re memorising the way your voice feels feels when you sing it. Another key would sound completely wrong. Try it with a pop song you know very well - sing the beginning and then check against the recording, you will probably be very close. I would be very surprised if the choir had been off even a semitone.
You may be the Pitchmeister but after a few years in a choir, this is not my experience - there is no way we could hit the right note without some sort of prior cue. There is a reason acapella groups use pitch-pipes and the like.
However, you can hold an extant note in your head for quite a while, and can often make the relative jump from the end of a previous phrase/bar/song, if that is how you have practiced it. It is also common for choirs to sag (go flat) when unaccompanied - you have to really work hard to keep on pitch for those bits. We performed the Mahler 5th which has a really nice unaccompanied section - we had to work at that for ages to not go flat (even when singing combined with a semi-professional choir). The conductor spent that whole section reminding us to “keep sharp” - and we got there in the end.
As for singers and keys… it is also worth remembering that common songs often get moved around by different singers. I do Mr Bojangles at our pub nights - played in C as they were the guitar chords I found (with a nice fingerpicking arrangement) and it suited my range. Someone else wanted a go, but needed it in F (as performed by Robbie Williams and Sammy Davis Jr). A little more digging found Neil Diamond singing it in D, and someone else in E, and …
I came here to say exactly this - with a starting note, it should be easy to proceed in the right key, but without it, you need perfect pitch (or something approaching it - even if you don’t have the musical knowledge to identify the notes)
Again, concur - I find I can hold a starting note in my head for a few minutes, but it will be disrupted if I hear something else in another key.
I’m in somewhat the same situation as the OP - I love singing, I’ve been told I’m pretty good (I’ve played a few roles in amateur musicals where I had solo parts and my singing was described as ‘angelic’ - if you can believe that!), but I can’t read music, so I can only take part either when there is an arrangement-faithful recorded version of the song that I can practice along with, or when the rest of the choir/cast/band are patient enough to endure my shortcomings on the technical side.
These are the best threads on the durp by far. Already said, but every time someone wants to have a tune, they sing and I kind of fumble a few times (but make it sound good, if that makes sense) until I get where they’re at. Same thing with any other instrument really – seriously, a guitarist knowing what key he’s in ahead of time? Same with me – just start somewhere and hope everyone catches on pretty soon.
The art ime is getting good enough at your ear so you’re not jus randomly plinking notes hoping one fits – make some music out of it hopefully for no more than a bar and big boy’s yr uncle.
And who cares about absolute pitch? For all they know, they learned their pitches using a beat up old piano tuned a whole tone down. Not going to help you playing at a = 440 on a typical bar piano.
But yeah, the other side which I’ve seen of ultrapro singers is they’ll say gone with the wind in F# and count off fast. Also a pain in the ass. But a regular, cool pro singer, they’ll say it could happen to you, but can you do it in F, please?
That doesn’t surprise me: when you’ve practiced a song to the point where you’re performing it in concert, oftentimes all you need is the opening chord to find the key.
This is most definitely not true for all singers: I’ve encountered plenty of vocalists who get completely thrown off by a different key (or feel/tempo), even if it’s a song they know very well.
I’d change “often” to “always.”
I’m a jazz singer, and in addition to a simple list of titles and keys (kept on my phone) I also have binders with charts or lead sheets of every tune I do in my key: at gigs I always give a binder to the pianist/guitarist and a binder to the bass player*. Often they are both grateful and surprised, because too many singers simply expect all musicians to be able to play every song in every key.
*I also have a binder of charts for Bb instruments, in their key. I’m pretty anal retentive…luckily, the musicians I’ve met tend to appreciate that.
But the piano gives everyone a standard pitch to follow.
