Moral victory for gays in Iraq, who’ve suffered horrendous violence from the hands of bigoted and backward ass militamen, such as the Sadr and Badr brigades. It seems Sistani was put in action when a group called LGBT pleaded with him to do something about it.
Considering the guy didn’t have to even acknowledge the killings and continue his fatwa, I regard this as a step forward. And considering Iraqi is a very conservative society, it’s even more surprising he removed it. That’s what I’m highlighting, but then again, don’t let that get in the way of your sarcastic comments. :rolleyes:
I agree it’s a very good thing that the fatwa is lifted, but I’m not sure that this is really groundbreaking in Iraqi society. AFAICT, the current violence against gays you ascribe to Iraqi “conservatism” is more a consequence of the instability and rise of theocratic elements since the invasion. An April BBC report suggests that conditions for gays have got much worse in the past few years than they were under the oppressive but secularist dictatorship of Saddam:
I hope that Sistani’s concession is a promising sign that Iraqi theocratic elements are toning down the harshness of their extremism and considering a return to the somewhat more tolerant and secular society that Iraqis have been used to. But they’ve still got a long way to go.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but that’s basically how I feel about it. You don’t get a cookie from me just because you’ve stopped persecuting & killing. Also, there was no debate proposed in the OP. Unless one quickly develops, I assume this thread will be moved to IMHO or MPSIMS.
Well the debate is how much influence will this have on Shias in general, and will it lead to a drop in the amount of persecution which results in murder of Gays in Iraq? It also leads me to believe how receptive is the Shia clergy open to change.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my humble little time on Earth, is that no matter how devoutly religious someone is, they still freely pick & choose which rules to follow. Take Catholics for instance. The bible strictly forbids adultery, yet Catholics will go out & do it all the time. But when the subject of Gays comes up, they start shouting, “it says so in the bible! I believe the bible!”
Other than that, I probably won’t participate in this if it becomes a great debate, because I’m not researched enough about Islam.
So what? Many Catholics around the world don’t execute Gays. If Sistanis removal of the Fatwa can help people stop getting killed, then it’s a step in the right direction. I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner, considering transexuals and cross dressers in Iran are officially tolerated.
I’m confused by the article. Was the fatwa rescinded, or just removed from the website. Did Sistani actually come out and announce an end to the fatwa? It would make a difference to me.
More to the point, did Sistani actually issue the original fatwa?
Only the cleric who issued a fatwa can rescind it. If Sistani issued an anti-gay fatwa, to begin with, then that was really bad, but then its removal is a possibly good sign: it will be an excellent matter if he has revoked his own fatwa; it will be a hopeful but troubling sign if he has simply stopped publicizing, but has failed to lift, a fatwa he issued…
If Sistani simply had an ancient (and thus, irrevocable) fatwa removed from the web site, then he is doing as much as he is permitted under the rules of Islam, which is, again, a good sign.