Of course you would. Once they’ve climbed on their robes ride up and you can see their knees. Ever seen an Imam’s knees? Eeeew.
How do people get by living their lives in such terror all the time?
-Joe
So, an airline would have the right to refuse to allow black people or women to fly on its planes? And if not, does it have the right to refuse service to “Arabic” people who pray in public, as part of their religious obligations?
Oh for fucks sake.
Would that sentence work if you replaced ‘six Muslim guys praying’ with any other group and action? Is there any other group that, for you, it’s legitimate to go “well it’s at least partly their fault, they should have been more understanding?”
You can’t start judging the actions an entire group just because a minority of that group are nut jobs, and certainly you can’t start tossing people off planes for praying.
Like I’ve said elsewhere, the terrorists don’t even need guns and bombs to cause terror anymore – a few guys in robes speaking ‘foreign’ will do it just fine.
SD
I hear Branson, MO is a popular destination for Mormons.
No. I don’t think anyone is going to be very understanding, or is required to be, about being thrown off a flight for no good reason.
Yes. My question to you: were any of the 9/11 hijackers middle-aged, dressed in what might be considered Middle Eastern garb, traveling in a group or seen to pray in public prior to boarding their flights?
Actually, it’s an everyday occurrence for this American, working as I do with a number of muslims at my place of business. As to the larger question, while I’m not Christian, my understanding is that praying is an everyday occurrence for most Christians. Muslim praying, probably not so much, but persons thinking that the sight of a muslim praying is some kind of indicator of an incipient hijack event are, quite simply ignorant.
I’m not actually arguing this point, but if we have freedom of religion in this country that freedom, it seems to me, would encompass being able to pray in public if one needs to, without getting one thrown off an airplane.
Anyway, you want to be afraid of every muslim you see, that’s your business. I’m just trying to point out that your fears don’t seem to have much of a logical foundation.
And I’ll remind you that I’m still wondering how THE PASSENGER knew all of this stuff.
Or I could do as you have.
My take on the story really depends on the facts on the ground - that is, on what these guys were actually up to.
Taken off a flight for praying = absurd.
Taken off a flight for deliberately and provocatively engaging in all sorts of behaviour that, cumulatively, appears suspicious = not absurd.
From the NY Times:
“Loudly praying” isn’t the whole story.
Question is really whether (a) these guys were just engaged in normal prayer, as they claim, in which case a big heap of apology is owed to them; or (b) they were out to deliberately shit-disturb, succeeded, and then played the victim card - in which case, obviously no apology is owed.
Thing is, none of us here are in a position to know. Rushing to judgment now says more about the person doing the judging than airline security.
Did you read the note in that link? So now I’m wondering how Cindy Sheehan plans on getting back to the US. She’s been condemning US involvement in Iraq. Most recently, she’s been protesting in Seoul in front of the main US military base. I mean, evidently people don’t want anyone like that on their flight.
I really liked the “…Allah…Allah…” in the note, too. Wow, the passenger recognized one whole word in an Arabic prayer and decided that’s just not something people should be saying.
You’re really fixated on the complaining passenger, aren’t you?
But again, there is no evident basis for you claiming that the entire incident stemmed from the passenger’s perceptions. To review key portions of your linked story again:
“In the incident Monday, a passenger reported overhearing the imams criticize the U.S. in Iraq and speaking angrily near the gate. The men were interrogated by the FBI and the Secret Service…According to a police report, a US Airways manager said three of the men had one-way tickets and no checked baggage. Some of the men also asked for seat belt extensions even though a flight attendant told police she thought they didn’t need them…An airport police officer and a Federal Air Marshal agreed the combination of circumstances was suspicious, and eventually asked the men to leave the airplane” (bolding added),
The impression I get based on the information available to me is that there appears to have been some overreaction on the part of authorities and that some apologies would be wise - and that the complainants seem to have behaved stupidly and/or in a deliberately provocative manner. You on the other hand have apparently leaped to the conclusion that this is entirely a disgraceful example of panic and religious prejudice aimed at our Six Traveling Imams.
Think what you like, but consider applying some logic and consistency when doing so.
The only way that a “bunch of Muslim guys praying” could bring to mind the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon is if the person whose feeble mind was so influenced was operating on a basic level of prejudice and hatred to the disparagement of facts. The previous attackers did not get together and pray publicly, so an association of the two groups can only be rooted in unreasoning (i.e., unreasonable) prejudice. In fact, my memory is that the WTC/Pentagon attackers all arrived separately and deliberately acted as though they did not know each other, so a group of men praying together (thus clearly calling attention, however inadvertantly, to their presence), is the exact opposite of the actions of the terrorists.
That some passenger was driven by unreasoning paranoia to write a note is one thing. That the officials of the airlines would act on that unreasoning paranoia and bring in cops who would further act on that stupid fear goes far beyond what a “reasonable” person should “understand”.
Certainly, one complaining passenger may well have been paranoid and/or bigoted. That determination depends on what exactly the guys were saying, how they said it, etc.
For example, I’d be pretty wary of some guy randomly cursing US involvement in Iraq and calling out that he was ready to do Allah’s will on the flight (of course, more because such behavior is sort of nuts than because I’d think he was a terrorist).
On the other hand, the guy could simply have been calmly debating with his friend the political situation after prayers: a perfectly innocent action. Point is - we don’t know. At least, I don’t know.
But allegedly, one complaint wasn’t the story - others, including flight attendants, concluded these guys were behaving in a suspicious manner, having nothing to do with praying. I presume (perhaps wrongly) that attendants are trained to look for signs of suspicious behaviour. Of course, this could be simply another example of observational bias - having been pointed out, everything could seem suspicious. Once again, we don’t know.
I’m just a trifle more wary of rushing to condemn all involved for bigotry and paranoia. It may be deserved, but the actual evidence is a lot more ambiguous than ‘Imams get bum’s rush for praying’.
Nonsensical Mental Image–Donny & Marie, toting submachine guns.
Ranting about the bourgeois bloatpigs…in a nice way.
And shooting the stewardess, when she offers coffee.
Robes? My reference on bicycles was obviously about Mormons.
Why couldn’t these Imams use a LITTLE common sense? They OUGHT to realize that the freedom (to shout "fire’ in a crowded cinema) is NOT a freedom?
Do they realize that muslim suicide bombers frequently yell out "Allahu Akhbar’ before blowing themselves up?
My life and safety is MUCH more important that these clown’s right to worship. if they want to pray, do it in private. people are scared, and I think the desk clerk did the right thing (imagine if the clerk who sold the tickets to the 9/11 monsters was as perceptive).
Uhm, it means “God is great”, IIRC. I think asking people to pray without actually praising their God is a bit more of an inconvenience.
Ah, and I see with a bit of research that “Allahu Akbar” is in fact required as part of the prayers. So no, they couldn’t drop those words.
Your synapses fire? Cite?
Can I have this as a sig?
I see…so it would not bother you if you were in the London underground, waiting for a train, and a few of these guys started chanting and shouting? I’m not inclined to risk my life for this, thank you very much!
Cite?
I’d toss 'em some change like I do for the others that are chanting and shouting.