The vast majority of our evolution did not include washing with soaps (at least not like the ones we use today). Is washing with soap actually damaging in the long run (or even short run)? It seems like we must wash with soap, and then add the natural positive ability of that which we are washing off - by adding moisturizers, etc.
Are you implying that that there’s something counter-evolutionary about washing with soap, on the grounds that we didn’t evolve doing it? Not sure what you’re getting at.
FWIW my dermatologist (actually a couple of them) said that too much washing removes the skin’s natural protective oils and such and that doesn’t need to wash the entire body or hair daily. I’ve had other dermatologists tell me to never use soap or any cleanser on my face.
We have been built with certain protective systems that we’ve decided to override with chemistry, which isn’t the greatest idea.
Indeed; And I’m looking for more insight (like what Quiddity Glomfuster gave).
Thanks.
It probably depends on where you are washing. The benefits of washing your hands often (reducing disease spread) probably outweigh the negligible damage you do to yourself.
Ah, but the vast majority of our evolution included death before 30. Coincidence or soap related?
I see no evidense that it is soap related… Can you present me with some?
Thanks for those articles. I wonder what dermatologists would say in response to this information. Maybe a balance of washing and not, or perhaps something different entirely.
AND bacteria, viruses and microbes evolve too - we’ve seen 'em do it within our lifetimes. To say, “but cavemen didn’t wash their hands after visiting the fecal trough!” is to completely overlook that the e. coli’s great-great-great-great-granddaddy might not have been as dangerous as today’s.
Do I think one can overdo it? Heck yeah. I don’t use antibacterial soaps or drying antibacterial gels or antibacterial household cleansers. I’m a great believer that the immune system needs slow and steady training by limited and strategic exposure to pathogens. But it’s very clear that washing hands prior to patient contact is the greatest innovation with the farthest reaching health benefits of the last 5000 years. I don’t care how many fancy MRI’s or antibiotics you have, one staph infection from patient A is enough to get a whole floor sick if the nurses aren’t using soap between patients.
And, as I’m currently recovering from a whopper of an intestinal food poisoning due to a pre-cut and wrapped fruit tray, I’d extend, if not life-span, a great deal of comfort, gained when people wash their hands before preparing food and clean food prep surfaces with soap or detergent.
I’ve corrected the link for Part 1 of the Salon article. It should work now:
I fixed it when I read it and thanked you for it… [-_o]
To me at least, the part about vaccines, bacteria, and the natural works have been obvious. My curiosity was more on the terms of dermatology, and I realize now that I wasn’t specific enough:
Isn’t the affect of soap (which works mainly by breaking the lipid bilayer) over the long run detrimental to the dermis? Couldn’t washing as we do now throughout our lives contribute a lot to the breakdown of collagen and other vital matrices?
Did old people look younger (i.e. their collagen cross-linked more slowly) in the Bad Old Days when soap was used more rarely? No? So much for that one, then.
Skin secretions are antibiotic/antiviral themselves, so removing them might reduce your defenses. You’re also removing the microbes they’d defend against, though, so I’d say you break even on that one.
I don’t really see proof for any of this. We don’t have much photography from when people didn’t use (much) soap (it has been integrated into our societies for a lot while). Even so, photography technology has change way too much to make any distinctions on that account.
Furthermore, the argument that it all evens out because your removing the microbes too seems erroneous. This phenomenon is much too complex to make a 50/50 equation out of it (remove oils + remove microbes = no need for oils/nature; everything is dandy). It hasn’t been shown that many of these external (many symbiotic) organisms do long term damage, and on those terms soap can be considered less natural.
The belief that soap = clean = best = no reason not to; and us versus the outside world of parasites seems to be woven into most of humanity’s intuition, so I understand how this question is difficult to approach. I think Pasteur would have us think twice.
I dont know how much this adds to the topic but I have been using my own Soap for about a year now, I make it from scratch and I use olive oil as the base for all my soaps. in that time my skin has cleared up in alot of areas. (not acne, I have never had a real probem with that)
no more random dry patches and as long as I wash my face with a cloth for a good scrub every day or 2 it also stays clear of dry patches.
I think to some degree you are more than right about soap, but I think its the type of soap as well. we dont need soap that kills 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of bacteria ON CONTACT!!! for day to day living at all. doctors performing surgery? sure thing. me at home cooking dinner? regular old soap is the thing.
Regular old soap kills “99.9%” of bacteria on contact. There’s usually nothing special about “anti-bacterial soap” other than the labeling. Medical soaps can be fancy, though.
Critical1, are you just making straight olive oil soap or what other mixes have you tried?
They did, however, have portrait painters. Old people still looked old… and that’s not taking into account that they were probably being flattered by the portraitist. The cross-linking of collagen that results in the loss of skin elasticity and appearance of aging doesn’t appear to have much to do with soap use.
If they start allowing anybody who wants to to buy antibiotic soap, then I’d get kinda miffed, as the unregulated use of antibiotics is probably going to kill us all. But regular soap doesn’t work like that for its antibacterial properties and “soap resistant bacteria” aren’t something I’m worried about.
I use straight olive oil for shaving and have tried several mixes for other use, my current favorite has Lard for a base (makes it a harder bar) and cinnamon infused olive oil for the superfating part then add some whole oats and hit em with the blender on a stick. makes a great smelling bar thats nice and scrubby
I dont think most soap kills 99.9% of germs but what it does do is strip the oils off your skin that the germs are hanging out in and on. I could be wrong about that part though.
Soap destroys the stability of their membranes. They rupture and die. I don’t know that it’s 99.9% either, but there usually nothing special about “antibacterial soap” other than that it’s, y’know, soap.
When we first started soap making there was a phase where we were just making small batches of “pure” soaps from whatever oils we could find. Olive (smells nice), coconut (ridiculously foamy), corn (lots of glycerin, doesn’t really set), safflower, rape, almond, walnut, lard (smelled like bacon, otherwise very nice), hazelnut (this one made me hungry, too expensive), grape, and probably some others I can’t recall.
We also made several batches involving human milk.
Later experimentation lead us to a 50/50 olive/coconut. The combination of the almost-slimy lather of the olive and the foam of the coconut gives something like shaving cream. Try it if you can find coconut oil.
sounds cool, I have played around a bit, mostly olive oil because it makes a great soap and I can get it at costco. unfortunatly with Lye on the crystal meth list I havent made any lately. you can make some really nice smelling soaps very easily by infusing the oils with your sent stuff.
for the Cinnamon, I add around 1/2 cup of cinnamon to a standard size wine bottle and fill with olive oil, give it a good shake every few days but mostly just let is sit for a couple weeks until you make a batch of soap. one thing.
MAKE SURE YOU DONT SHAKE IT FOR A COUPLE DAYS before using for soap.
seriously, it takes some time to settle and trust me on this you dont want the cinnamon in your soap, the color is a nice enough brown but everyone complains about the poopy brown foam that comes off it.
just pour out the oil, you might get a little cinnamon but thats fine. works with just about anything with a strong smell.