Post here all the on dits from town, but enact no Cheltenham tragedies! Only those with good ton are encourage to post… Oh, and anyone comparing Heyer (master of her form, witty dialogue, well rounded characters, excellent narrative drive) to Barbara Cartland (of which the less said the better) will be cut direct.
Which is your favorite novel (if you can pick only one)? Which is your least favorite? Why?
My favs: Venetia or Frederica, although The Grand Sophy and the Foundling, as well as Faro’s Daughter, The Tollgate are in the running. (can’t choose).
When I was younger, I preferred the younger heroines, but by my mid-twenties, I preferred the older ones. There is more humor and realism in those books, than the archetypal hero and innocent maid ones. But I’ll read any of them and have, many times.
Least fav: An Infamous Army and the other historical one (John? Simon something?-horrible with names and titles) --have never been able to finish them.
It would be almost impossible to pick a single favorite.
My favorite heroines are Prudence in The Masqueraders, (I don’t think you were very well named, child), The Grand Sophy, Miss Thane in The Talisman Ring, and Mary Challoner in Devil’s Cub. Perhaps I admire their calm resourcefulness, or maybe their dexterity with weapons.
Favorite hero - hands down - is Tristram Shield in Talisman, although Avon (These Old Shades) and Rule (A Convenient Marriage) are close seconds.
My favorite supporting character is Tremaine of Barham in The Masqueraders. “I have never met the man who had vision large enough to appreciate my genius,” he said simply. “Perhaps it was not to be expected.”
My hands-down favorite is The Devil’s Cub. I laugh hysterically every time I read it. I love that book! Mary Challoner is just that awesome. Oddly enough, I don’t really care for These Old Shades. Avon and Leonie are not that interesting to me.
My other favorites are A Civil Contract, The Unknown Ajax, False Colors, and The Grand Sophy. I hated A Civil Contract the first time I read it (What? You call **that **a happy ending?), but it stuck with me for years, and now I find it moving, if not very romantic. OK, it’s not romantic at all, but I still enjoy reading about Adam and Jenny.
I don’t like Heyer’s “modern” mysteries. They are definitely a product of their time, and I find them quite jarring at times. Her Roaring 20s heroines are nothing like her Georgian and Regency ones, either.
Regardless, Georgette Heyer has her own shelves in my library. No one writes dialogue like that anymore. For all that she basically invented the genre, she wouldn’t get published if she was writing now, IMHO.
Why do you say that she wouldn’t be published today? No sex? Not enough sex? Or is the dialogue too intelligent for today (that I would believe).
I like her mysteries, given that I tend to overlook her Man of Mystery stuff a bit (I tolerate quite a bit from Ms Heyer).
I like the broad farce of Talisman Ring, but also appreciate the cool, methodical Civil Contract as well. I enjoy the range that Heyer had, and I like the evolution of her heroines, from innocent ingenues to “seasoned”, wise women.
If I had to choose (and I can only read Heyer’s Regency–well, Austen, too, but no other writer does the times justice or draws characters as well), I’d pick Jennifer Crusie as a modern day Heyer. She seems to capture the sense of the era (the present day) as well as Heyer does. I am not a romance reader–I have little interest in the genre, and frankly find most of it bilge. I had to read Crusie for a class last semester, and came away impressed. Sadly, other forays into the genre have reinforced my former opinion. I suppose I am only marginally interested in how boy gets girl. If it’s well done, I’m very interested…
The only one I cannot seem to get a hold of to reread is Cousin Kate. IMS, it’s one I would like, but I’ve only read it once a ways back.
I ask you–how can I not buy that, if it’s $1.00? I will have to look more closely and find out if the shipping is like $60. (I wanted to buy #2 son a TinTin T shirt this year for Xmas. The shirt was about $22–no problem. Shipping it from Belgium was about god-I don’t know, it was either $47 or $76 or some outrageous amount. he didn’t get his TinTin shirt.)
And now back to the thread.
Anyone here read the Georgetter Heyer biography? Apparently she didn’t trust accountants, so her fortune from writing was pissed away… Sad.
rigs, I don’t think she could be published today because
her books are too “romantic” for popular fiction
not romantic *enough *for modern-day genre romance (read: no sex, too much talking)
her books are intelligent, something that seems to frighten publishers of popular and/or genre fiction, although readers seemed to be starved for intelligent plots
I should qualify published in the United States, because her books are in print in the UK. When the cats annihilated my copy of The Unknown Ajax, I went ahead and imported a copy from the UK, because I like my books new. But I’m weird like that.
I also admit that I own a couple of books that I haven’t read yet, kind of like a savings account. Once I’ve read them all, I can never read them again for the first time. So I save them.
Oh, la, Miss! A Georgette Heyer thread!!! Now, where did I leave my reticule? My spectacles are in it . . . there we are.
Now I can read! And type.
I have all Heyer’s books and have been reading them since I was in high school. (I graduated from high school in 1961.) One of my English teachers gave me one, and I was hooked. I began by liking the extravagant “These Old Shades” but ended up preferring the ones like “Sprig Muslin” and “A Civil Contract”. My English teacher thought the books were well written, and she was right, they are well written, although the earlier ones are not as well written as the later - no surprise, I suppose, a writer learning her craft.
I do have a couple of criticisms of A Civil Contract, but won’t mention them here as they would constitute spoilers. A couple of niggling details, nothing much. Still, Jenny and Adam’s story is lovely and in the end quite romantic enough.
Cousin Kate is excellent, one of her best, along with The Quiet Gentleman and The Grand Sophy. I looked for years and years to find The Toll Gate (terrific) and The Unknown Ajax. Luckily I have no qualms about second hand books, as if I did my bookshelves wouldn’t be so full.
I get quite misty-eyed when I think of the hours and hours of pleasure I’ve had reading these books over the years. People keep telling me to try other “Regency romances” and once I was given a Barbara Cartland one and I simply COULD NOT believe that such dreadful drivel was published. It’s beyond belief, at least for me.
There is a Georgette Heyer Prize for historical fiction. M. M. Kaye won it for “The Far Pavilions”, another terrific book, not at all in the Heyer line though. Ms. Heyer knew her stuff. She nailed the details of dress, behavior, and conversation.
Yes, I agree. And hate it when people dismiss her books as just Regency romances. That’s like saying Jane Austen is chick lit! Now, I loves me some chick lit, and Austen (and Heyer is not in Austen’s league), but there is NO comparison to her and that waste of space, Cartland. I tried to read her a few times in adolescence, but never again. Ugh and yuck. Sadly, I agree with you re the too intelligent and not enough sex–as if some of those couples don’t steam off the page! But there is no thrusting of manhood against breeches etc. No rapture in the pasture (as if! No Heyer heroine would risk her undermuslin!). It’s a sad statement on publishing today, but an accurate one. I must remember to buy some of the Heyer books when I go to UK next time (god knows when that will be!).
The thing (for me) about Heyer is her freshness and genuineness. She knows her time period, inside and out–the characters never use the wrong slang or “go beyond the line of what is pleasing” to their society. I love throw away lines like when Sophy tells the userer that is she had been his daughter, he would have taught her how to pick pockets and he would have a clean shirt to wear! Stuff like that.
The ONLY criticism I can come up with for her is her overuse of the exclamation mark. But unlike Cartland, there is nary an ellipse to be had–thank god.
I adore Sophy! (Sorry, had to use the exclamation mark, there.) Imagine if she hadn’t interfered? What would have become of poor Charles?
Another fave is Bath Tangle, and the Lady Serena and her, well, her tangled romances. Oh, and the one with the twins . . . . (oops, an ellipse . . .) dash it, Miss, I can’t recall the title. I can recall the characters’ names, but not the title. Kit and Evelyn. Cressida. Sir Bonamy Ripple, one of her best creations: hugely fat, he explains his enormous appetite with absolute sincerity, saying, “I have a large frame to keep up.”
Why do you need to wait until you go to England? Aren’t the books available in your area?
Ah, Sir Bonamy Ripple. One of my favorites. Poor man, he never expected to be taken literally. Kit’s as managing as Sophy, in his own way, and everything ends up neat as a pin at the end.
Do criticize Civil Contract, but use the spoiler boxes. I don’t think anyone in this thread hasn’t read it, but you never know. I think I remember reading that she was going through a dark period when she wrote it.
Ah, Georgette Heyer! I have The Quiet Gentleman sitting on my night-table, waiting patiently for my approach.
My favorite Heyer has justly been cited several times already: The Devil’s Cub. Though I will say These Old Shades may contain the most swoon-worthy line Heyer ever penned (at least among those I have read). Leonie (whom I couldn’t stand, btw, but that’s for another thread) asks Avon if he recalls something she told him much earlier, and he allows the first glimpse into the nature of his true feelings when he replies, “I remember every word you have ever spoken to me.” Ahhhh, I swooned.
Oh, someone else reads Georgette Heyer! I was introduced to her later in life, around 20 or so, and have only read a few so far. But I found the Heyer books in our library a few months ago and have been reading my way through them. They’re a lot of fun. Compared to the other twaddle that passes as “Regency romances” they are a completely different breed; accurate, light and amusing and clever.
Our library doesn’t have Devil’s Cub so I just put in an ILL request for it. Thanks, Dopers.
I don’t like her Gothic ones at all (Black Sheep etc.), but I love her witty, almost plotless society dramas. They are so clever and light and frothy–definitely comfort reading.
I think my favorite is Cotillion. (I will spoil it just in case…) She really managed to fool me–it was the first Heyer I read and I was sure that the heroine was going to end up with her knave of a cousin, Jack. It is such a romance novel convention, after all. When he gets his comeuppance and she ends up loving Fred? So amazingly satisfying! It’s like when you really want a different ending for a TV show or a movie or something, and you actually get it! I love it for how it turns the cliche on its head.
I also really love Frederica. I think Frederica herself is my most favorite character. My most favorite hero… probably Ajax. I much prefer him to the obnoxiously teasing rake type.
To be honest, some of her lesser works usually all blend together in my mind. I couldn’t tell you the names of the heroes/heroines to save my life but I do enjoy them all.
I like Black Sheep–it’s her early ones that I’m “meh” about. I also have to be in the right mood for her young ingenue ones, otherwise I get impatient with the heroine. By product of me no longer being a young ingenue, I think!
The full fleshing out of supporting characters is one of her hallmarks–these characters come alive and her books run like a film in my head. Jessamy, Felix and the Marquis of Alverstoke (Frederica)–their interactions add so much to the story, for just one example. The absurd aspiring poet in Grand Sophy
who writes a poem about his love’s dying baby sister and thinks this is a GOOD idea is another. There are so many, and in that we are lucky.
GH novels are not much for sale around here–I was at Borders yesterday and only Cotillion was on the shelf. Sadly, many of the libraries around here are purging her works as well*. I could ILL Cousin Kate, but I might still buy it. I just think it would be so cool to walk into a UK bookstore and just pick up a copy, like we would a Nora Roberts or whatever. The idea appeals to me.
*As they have done for Mary Stewart-another sad note.
Our library holds an annual used booksale, and I have often seen Heyer’s works for sale in the “Romance” section. If there are any titles someone wants me to look out for post them here, or email me.
The sale is in September, but since I work in the library I can talk to the sorters all year, and they have been helpful in the past in looking out for cookbooks I need.
count me in! I’ve only ever listened to her works. I am a heavy audiobook user, but have not so much time for actually reading. Our library’s online catalog says it has 13 audiobooks (all romances) and I’ve listened to them all. I’ve just learned that I can get audiobooks on interlibrary loan, so I can add some titles.
She’s just delightful! Like a pretty dress or a bouquet of flowers, just a pure pleasure (except the one about Waterloo, that was a bit slow going at bits)
