Sorry again, is Dan part of your surname?
In Hebrew, Dan means “judge”, and can be a name by itself, as well as being a nickname for Daniel (which means “God is judge”, btw)
**Yes, you could wash your hands of any settlers who choose to stay behind in the newly created Palestinian state.
But does anyone seriously disagree with my contention that any Jews who stayed under Palestinian rule would be massacred? And that Israel would be forced to do something about that massacre, which would mean the invasion of the Palestinian state?
**
Any peace agreement would have to guarantee that Jews would enjoy equal status under the law. It should also mandate that the only way for Palestine to be a legitimate state is to be a democracy. Personally, I don’t think Israel will allow a Palestinian dictatorship under Arafat or anyone. palestinians are capable of democracy, and democracy tends to liberalize populations. Israel will rightfully insist on it, as will the US.
**Everyone knows that whoever or whatever ends up running the Palestinian state, it will invariably be authoritarian. Any disagreements? Anyone who seriously thinks that some form of representative government will emerge? If so, why would we expect Arab Israeli citizens to voluntarily move there? And why would we expect that the human rights (and lives) of any Jews left behind would be respected?
**
Israel would have to reserve the right to uphold democracy in Palestine. Israel would also have to be responsible for Palestine’s defense, as Syria still has territorial designs on Palestine. After say, 50 years, Palestine might be able to stand on its own with no Israeli help, but that’s not realistic now.
Yes, of course legally the Jews would have all the same rights as everyone else. But of course this means nothing, every third world dictatorship has a beautiful constitution guaranteeing every human right. And the constitution is meaningless.
And I’m not so much envisioning the Palestinian cops and soldiers massacring the Jews, so much as standing aside while the paramilitaries like Hamas do it, or refusing to disperse lynch mobs.
Are you imagining that Israel would have the right to intervene in supposedly sovreign Palestine? I don’t think the Palestinians would agree to that. How exactly would that be different than what we have now? Israeli soldiers are needed in the West Bank to protect the settlers, the Palestinian cops won’t/can’t do it. If the IDF is still in the west bank after the creation of the Palestinian State, then we don’t really have a Palestinian state.
One would think,that after 50 years, Israel would be able to stand on its own without being a burden to the American taxpayer.
Is it realistic to think that day will ever come?
Razorsharp, do you understand WHY and HOW we decided to give the Israelis aid? Remember the Camp David peace accords? Remember Begin and Sadat and Carter shaking hands? We agreed to give the Egyptians and Israelis a bribe if they agreed to sign a peace treaty with each other. They did, and so every year we give them some money. And it isn’t exactly a lot of money either.
Would you rather that Egypt and Israel were still at war? Wait, forget I asked that question, I think I know what your answer might be.
We didn’t decide. The powers-that-be made that decision for us. And for your information, Israel, or “Neo-Israel” as a more apropos moniker, was receiving tax-payer largesse long before the Camp David peace accords you cite.
Anyways, since when did it become acceptable practice for the government to engage in bribes, especially at tax-payer expence?
"And it isn’t exactly a lot of money either."???
I am reminded of the late Senator Everett Dirkson.
“A billion here and a billion there, and pretty soon you’re talkin’ about real money.”
Razorsharp - try to think of it this way:
Saudi Arabia/Persian Gulf: Lots of American intersts, can’t trust countries/regimes in the region to protect them => American military intervention twice within 15 years. LOTS of money + American soldiers endangering (and sometimes losing) their lives.
Israel/Egypt: Lots of American interests, can for the most part trust countries/regimes in the region to protect them => No American military intervention necessary. Far smaller amounts of money spent protecting these interests, and no American lives jeprodized.
Final point: Nearly all the American aid to Israel goes back into the US economy as contracts for Military hardware.
So, in effect, the US is putting money into its own economy in a roundabout way (so it doesn’t have to be called “subsidies” or “bail outs”); in return its gets far better return on the buck guarding its own interests in the region.
This is the Real-politik of the situation. I don’t see why you, as an American citizen, should fault administration after administration for setting it up like this, and keeping it so.
Dan Abarbanel
Yes, of course legally the Jews would have all the same rights as everyone else. But of course this means nothing, every third world dictatorship has a beautiful constitution guaranteeing every human right. And the constitution is meaningless
That’s why Palestine would have to be a democracy, and have to have rule of law.
Obviously, that would not prevent things like lynch mobs and the occasional Hamas member from taking potshots at them, but we that level of violence in our own cities already, can’t expect to much from them. And Israeli settlers are more than capable of defending themselves. Almost all are heavily armed. Assuming that the Palestinian security apparatus isn’t after them, that might be to much. But against the occasional terrorist they are more than adequately protected already.
**One would think,that after 50 years, Israel would be able to stand on its own without being a burden to the American taxpayer.
**
Israel can stand without aid. They certainly won’t say no to it as long as it is extended, but they can live without it.
I see two possible solutions to this problem:
- One side or the other wins the war
- Nobody is allowed to live there
I prefer option 2, but really don’t see a way to make it happen. Close off the whole area, make it its own separate country, then set it up as a tourist area where anyone who wants to can spend time there praying, sight seeing, or whatever else would be appropriate for a land that is considered holy.