Small business computer opinions/help needed

In My Humble Opinion
1

Here is the situation:
I run a small business. I need computers to keep track of clients, scheduling, billing. Seven years ago I bought a server and four computers from my computer guy. He has been maintaining them ever since and has been very good about coming around and fixing things. The computers are slow and have a few glitches but work OK.

Currently, it is time for the yearly renewal of the service contract and he is telling me that it is time to replace everything. He has basically given me a quote to replace the server, mirrored hard drive, and all components including monitors (he recommends 19 inch) and keyboards along with an upgrade to windows 2008.

I certainly could use computers that work more efficiently. However, is it truly necessary to replace things like the keyboards, monitors, and mice if they work fine? Is is stupid to single out these relatively low-cost items if we are paying to replace the major cost items anyway. (He generally replaces keyboards and mice free anyway under the service contract). Do we really need such big monitors (they seem too large for desktop use) What would be a good approximate price for an AMD Phenom 64 Quad Core Server and 4 64 bit workstations?

In short, is he trying to make money by selling me upgrades I don’t need? How do you know when your computers need replacing? (I usually just use something until it bresaks and can’t be fixed before buying another).

2

This all sounds good, though you might want to test out the 19" monitors first. You can buy bigger monitors for not much more money, and you might consider having two monitors.

You’re right to be cost-conscious and check, but you are worrying needlessly. Modern mice and keyboards have USB connectors whereas yours are likely PS/2 and so will not connect to modern PCs without adaptors and loss of functionality. Modern displays are LCD whereas you likely have CRTs. LCDs use less desk space and less electricity.

BTW I don’t see anything about backups.

3

Is there a specific feature of 2008 you need? Unless you are going to keep your old server running I would just move the license of 2003 to the new server(If you are running 2003). That should save you quite a bit. If you have Server 2000 then go for 2008

Monitors it depends on what you have now. Old CRTs? Replace them. The desk space is very nice. 17" or smaller? Replace. The extra screen size is very nice. Maybe replace monitors for people always on the systems, and keep the old ones for rarley used systems. We are replacing our 19s with 22" wide screens. Everyone in my section run dual monitors so that will be very nice.

Keyboards, and mice; if he is charging you seperatly for them, and the ones you have work then don’t bother. If he is buying the systems from a manufacturer then it might just be part of the PC purchase.

Also are the new systems coming with Vista? You might want to wait for 7 from what I have heard. If you want to save the cash you could discuss keeping XP licenses(if you have XP) that are on your current systems, and stick with XP. Unless there are new Vista/7 features you need.

Also as Quartz mentioned is there some backup meathod included with the new server? Might use some of your savings on some backup equipment. RAID does not count as a backup. I just had a server drop 2 drives in a RAID 5 when we rebooted it. With no backup the data would have been gone.

-Otanx

4

Buy the biggest monitors you can afford. It is truly wonderful to be able to have multiple windows open and not be constantly shuffling them around.

5

Note that the older your systems get, the harder they are to fix and upgrade. Older RAM is more expensive and hard to find. It’s getting harder to find PS/2 mice and keyboards. New SATA drives are in more abundance than IDE drives. PCIe cards are easier to find than PCI cards. It’s often tricky to hook up new monitors to older machines. Etc…

I am in charge of fixing my family’s computers, and about 2 years ago I told everyone I just can’t support their old boxes anymore. However much time it would take me to fix their old machines in some jury-rigged way with old ass parts was just not worth it since they could get a whole new system with modern parts for so cheap.

Take the plunge. Just because you have someone that comes 'round to fix the computers doesn’t mean they’re not faulty - it means he’s just good. You might not notice how bad they are, but I’m sure he does.

6

Other than the extra desk space and reduced power consumption if you go from CRTs to LCDs, I don’t see the point of buying bigger monitors. Do you have staff that spend their entire days working on the computers?

ETA: USB to PS/2 adaptors are like five buck, so continuing to use old computers won’t be a problem vis-a-vis mice and keyboards.

7

Seven years is 61K hours. You’re definitely getting into MTBF land, assuming the server’s been up all that time. New PCs will come with USB keyboards and mice anyway.

I presume it’s not full Windows Server 2008 he’s proposing but rather SBS 2008. This requires a 64 bit platform - 4 GB minimum memory.

That said, if your server doesn’t run email or a database but just stores data, with such a limited number of workstations, you might find Windows Home Server more suitable.

8

I agree that bigger monitors aren’t necessarily worth it. The modern LCD monitors are indeed nicer than old CRTs – use a little less power, take up less space on the desk, no high-pitched whine, and to my mind a little easier to read. Whether it’s worth the money to switch if the current CRTs work is up to you (the electric cost savings aren’t going to be enought to justify making the switch based on that alone). But at any rate, for basic small-business work, you don’t need huge ones, and 19" seems maybe a little more than necessary.

On the other hand, new keyboards and mice are like ten bucks each, so it might not be worth spending much time or energy arguing about new ones. And, IMO, if you for some reason still have mice with trackballs inside them (rather than newfangled optical mice), it’s worth the ten bucks to replace them, just so you never have to clean out the gunk again. Especially if he’s the one servicing the computers, I’d go ahead and let him replace the keyboards and mice (I’m assuming he’s not proposing wireless keyboards or mice. That would be an utter waste of money).
I also might aggressively ask why you need hi-powered cutting edge 64-bit workstations. If all you’re doing is basic office tasks and reading The Straight Dope online, you really don’t need much as far as power goes. I’d push for currently available, but less than cutting edge components. And this could be a big cost difference. Once every seven years isn’t unreasonable to replace office computers, but you don’t need to go overboard.

9

Thanks for the help. As you can see, I know very little about the computers but here is some further information:

This is a medical office but we outsource billing so it is not stored on our server although scheduling and demographics are.

For back-up we have mirrored hard drives and also back up our data on disc daily.

The current monitors are flat-screen, 15 ". It seems to me that any bigger would take up too much space.

We already have optical mice and I think everything is a USB connection.

The system runs Window NT and he is upgrading to Windows 7.

I guess I am not used to things becoming obsolete so quickly and because I heard a rumor that he may be short on money, I am hoping that he is not just trying to make some extra off me. Any idea what a new system should cost (roughly)?

10

Windows NT doesn’t understand USB, so if the mice are USB, you’re probably using adapters. You will get additional functionality from the keyboards and mice if you go straight USB.

On the client side, Windows 7 may be the greatest thing since sliced bread - I certainly like it - but it is bad business to be on the bleeding technological edge when you do not need to be. I currently wok at a hospital and we’re quite happy on XP. A move to Windows 7 should be considered in a year or so, once all the major issues have been worked out.

On the server side, you should definitely move away from Windows NT - it’s long past end of life. Is there any live data sharing? That is, does your server run SQL or Exchange or any other server-side application? You almost certainly do not need a full-blown Windows 2008 server. At worst you will need Small Business Server.

11

Does the disc get checked to make sure it has the data, and do you store it off site? If a fire destroys the server with the disc still in the drive waiting to do tomorrows backup then it dosen’t do you much good. Otherwise good to see backups are being done.

IMHO 15" is too small for everyday use. Even 17" makes using the computer so much nicer. Will your computer guy let you borrow a 17" or 19" to see how you like it before you buy? He might have a spare sitting somewhere he can let you use to see how much bigger it is, and if it will work for you.

No need to upgrade IMHO. Keyboards and mice are cheap and you can replace them at any time. There is no reason to replace now if they work. If they stop later you can buy them then, and they will still cost the same.

OK, you really need to upgrade the OS. NT is end of life and MS no longer distributes patches for it as far as I know. Windows 7 for desktops and 2008 for the server would work very well.

Obsolete so quickly? 7 years is a very good run for computers if you have not been upgrading them piecemeal as you went along. As to cost I really don’t know. I am not in the loop on budget numbers here. I just install what they give me. I would suggest going to Dell and looking at midrange PCs and low end servers. Should give you a ball park number.

I will disagree with Quartz on not needing Windows 7. If you are planning on keeping the new systems as long as you kept the old ones you need to go with the newest OS now so you don’t end up on unsupported software after a few years. XP end of life has changed a few times, but from google it looks like support ends in 2014. You could go Vista instead of 7, but from what I have heard 7 is much better.

Speaking of unsupported software you will need to upgrade the applications you use normally. Microsoft Office, any special software for your industry etc. Most likley any version that worked in NT will not work in Windows 7 or XP. IIRC Office 2000 was on our list of unsupported software in Vista. I would assume it is the same for Windows 7.

I will agree with Quartz on the server side that you need SBS and not 2008 Server. I have never worked with SBS, but I understand it has scaled down versions of Exchange, SQL, Sharepoint, WSUS. That way you save alot over buying 2008 and adding on Exchange, etc.

-Otanx

12

Oh I think the OP will need Windows 7, but I also think that it’s a bad business decision right now. Windows 7 is simply unproven. The OP should not trust his business to it just yet. Wait a year.

13

Have you ever worked with a large monitor? Or a single system with two monitors? Productivity goes WAY up when you can, for example, have two documents up on the screen at once and refer from one to the other without having to use the mouse to switch between the two.

I personally have a 24" monitor as my main monitor, and a second computer with a 19" sitting right next to it. I use all my monitor space, and if I could fit more on my desk, I would.

Monitor space = more work gets done.

14

Stack them vertically.

15

I’ve found that for office use, two monitors can be preferable to one large one.

16

How do you stack a flat-panel on top of another flat-panel? There’s no flat surface on top.

17

Would it make any sense to go for the new server now and replace the 4 computers in a year?

18

I’m the opposite. For a long time I had two offices (one at work, one at home) and divided my time between the two. Work office had 2 19", home office had one 24". When I moved permanently to home, I kept the 24", I thought it was better than the two 19".

I haven’t tested out 2 24". Hmm. Must go check monitor prices.

19

You can get monitor stands that have the monitors on top of each other. (I just checked Amazon.com and found one for about $74.) You remove the factory-installed stand and then attach the monitor to the aftermarket stand using the VESA mounting holes.

20

First of all don’t replace everything at once, this is easier for him, not needed for you.

Have him make a list of what needs to be replaced.

Have him target this list as “urgent” down to “nice to have” (or whatever)

Unless he can come up with concrete proof of WHY you need to purchase everything at once, don’t. If he says “We can get a discount, well that’s one thing.”

I used to have my own business and I was keeping old WIN95 computer systems alive.

Think of it like this, if you have a coat and it has a rip in the sleeve, it’s still wearable and does the purpose of keeping out the cold. BUT you’ll have to replace it, if the rip can’t be fixed. But does that replacement be now.

I am suspicious simply because right now computer people are suffering. I am not working full time and I used to be able to put an ad in Craigslist and make $500.00 a month at least for my services. But since July, I haven’t got one call.

The economy is still bad and unemployment isn’t getting better.

Now I am in no way saying this man is lying. But tread very carefully that this guy isn’t just trying to scare you into buying more than you actually need. After all he needs to eat too, but not at your expense.

If it MUST be replaced, replace it. If it can hold off another year, do it. If he can’t find a workaround, find another computer guy. The field is swamped with unemployed computer techs.

Again make him justify to you why exactly it has to be replaced. Make him justify WHY you can’t substitute another type of computer to do the same job. Computers are much more powerful now, you may not need the same equipment to get the job done.