Small Investor Question

Let me preface this with the understanding that most of us aren’t investment professionals and even those that are, are not MY investor professional that I have or would hire, and I and anyone else are in no way obligated to follow any suggestions given here.

OK, that over…

I’ve got full matching with my 401(k) at work, which is an OK set up but not spectacular. I have a small pension coming from a former employer (which I might take as a lump sum at 65 - I’ve been running the numbers and that might work out better for me, but I’ve got more than half a decade to make that decision), and social security coming (current plan is to not collect that until 70 to max the benefit). According to a couple of retirement calculators I can, with what I currently have, fund my current lifestyle out to age 85, give or take 5 years. It’s not a lavish lifestyle, but it’s comfortable enough. However, one can always look for more feathers for one’s nest.

I’ve also got a savings account which I started originally to have the “6 months living costs” on hand. Which has worked well for me. But between some advancement where I currently work, some side income, and hazard pay for working during a pandemic I am now in a position where I have more than 6 months worth of cash on hand and I’m thinking it may be time to do something with that cash beyond my rainy-day fund target.

So… looking for ideas for what to do with between 2.5k and 5k in US dollars.

I have pretty near zero experience with stocks and investments, so please use words under six syllables and avoid acronyms unless you explains them first.

Can you expand more on the full matching 401k by your employer? Is it dollar for dollar? How much of your pay will they match? Most employers I know of stop after 5%. Whatever that number is make sure you’re taking full advantage of it.
If you have any outstanding debt, (mortgage, auto, credit card) I’d throw any excess money that way till they’re gone.
After that I’d still max out my contribution probably opting for a Roth IRA rather (if they give you the option) rather than the traditional IRA.
If you want the funds more liquid contact someone who can invest your extra cash into some low cost index funds, Vanguard, etc.
The market has been fairly stable as of late and you should make much more on your investment there than in a savings account.

As an investment professional (financial advisor), my recommendation is to hire a Certified Financial Planner to help you. With no meaningful assets available to invest outside of your 401k, getting a fee-based plan is your best course of action. They will likely recommend opening a Roth IRA for your excess cash, which will also mirror a rollover IRA for when you retire. They can provide guidance on how to allocate your 401k, which will be far more appropriate advice than anything you receive here, since they’ll be in a better position to go through much more personal questions.

I have, for my own needs, answered the above questions to my own satisfaction but I’m sure you’ll understand that I don’t want to put too many details of my personal finances out here. I do, however, assure you that I am taking full advantage of the matching my employer offers. They will not increase their match even if I put more money into that specific 401(k).

Nope, no debt. I do use the credit card but I pay it off in full at the end of the month, every month.

My employer does not offer a Roth IRA. They offer one and only one 401(k) and the allocation choices basically amount to “tell us what year you plan to retire”. It has been making money for me, and the matching thing is nice, but now that I have more to put towards retirement I have a hunch that there are better options for me out there.

That’s what I’ve been thinking - having some in savings for more or less immediate access has been useful but I’ve got “too much” money in the account now, I want to use it to make more money if I can.

However, I know something between zero and nothing about being in the market.

Thank you for stepping in, I do appreciate it.

Any quick pointers for finding a CFP, and/or things to look out for?

As I’ve mentioned, the options for allocating the workplace 401(k) are extremely limited. I’m pretty sure (even with my limited knowledge) that I’d be better off getting a Roth from someone else.

Thanks again to you both for your opinions and recommendations.

I was very lucky. My company offered both a 401k plan and a pension plan. I contributed a little over the matching percent (6) to my 401k. I was also able to take my pension as a lump sum. Where I was really lucky was having a friend who retired several years before me who’d gone through a couple of financial planners before finding the one she recommended to me. I’ve been very happy with him, and I trust him – although the last time we chatted he said he was going to try and talk me into being a little more aggressive after the new year (I’m an extremely conservative investor & “aggressive” investing scares me).

So, my advice is very much investigate anyone you’re looking to go with. And don’t be afraid to dump them for someone else if you don’t feel comfortable. My friend had one person that she originally went with because she was a woman, and she thought this planner would be more sympatico. Nope. She was doing things that felt wrong to her, so she dumped that planner and ended up with the guy we both have now.

Bottom line: research and get recommendations from people you trust.

Without knowing more details it’s hard to be precise. But from what I can gather I’d put the money into a total stock index at Vanguard.

I’m going to argue against any kind of financial planner at this point. IMHO they are useful if you have more than a little money available, and a broad range of choices in your 401k. Not to sound unkind, but even $5,000 is right on the edge of just a little money < more than a little money. And it sounds like your 401k doesn’t offer much in the way of choices - not uncommon with employers.

So, to cut through that noise - pick out a commercial consumer investment company (Schwab, Fidelity, Vanguard, etc.) and set up a Roth IRA with them. Put your money in, and choose a total stock index mutual fund to allocate the money.

When you have more than a little money, then think about paying for a financial planner.

Why do you want to make more money? Do you want to retire a bit earlier than you otherwise would? Planning something lavish in the future? Are you worried about running out of money? Something else? In other words, what do you value? What you value most dictates what you do with the money.

If you toss 5k in some S&P500 index fund, you double your money (caveat: on average!) roughly every 9 years on an inflation-adjusted basis. What use do you have for 5k now, vs 10k in 9 years, vs 20k in 18 years etc… what makes the most sense for you?

As a personal example, I’m saving my extra pennies for the day when a COVID vaccine gets fully-approved, the whole family can get vaccinated, and we can go on some pricey two-week vacation with a stop so that my folks can reconnect with their grandkids. Because after 2020… yeah… Stashing that cash so I can retire a year sooner holds less appeal for me. But that’s my specific value system; do what best fulfills your wants and/or allays your fears.

Note that you setup and contribute to a Roth IRA independent of your employer.

Ha-ha-ha-ha! I WISH I could think about retiring early! I WISH I could think about lavish vacations!

I am concerned about running out of money and/or not keeping up with inflation in my later years. The Great Recession wiped out everything I had other than the pension and social security, I’m having to rebuild my retirement in my 50’s.

I can, according to what I’ve figured out so far, maintain my current lifestyle through about age 85 … but I come from a family where those who escape the heart disease problem (linked to not one but TWO bad genes… neither of which I’ve inherited) live into their 90’s. In other words, I should probably figure a way to fund at least my current lifestyle until I’m 100.

To that end I’m not planing to retire until 70 at the earliest (depending on how I’m doing at 70 I might keep working after that).

And while my current lifestyle fulfills my basic needs it’s low frills. I’d prefer to have more cushion. Especially since as time goes by inflation will continue to inflate.

So, at this point, I’m looking at working 15-20 more years, and possibly longer even though at some point I’ll have to start making withdrawals from these retirement accounts even if I’m still working. After which I’ll have to find some way to continue to make investments for 10-20 years.

The CFP organization should have a “find a CFP near me” on their website. Things to ask: what are the fees; can you recommend easy to find, low-expense funds to invest in; what will my final financial plan look like, etc. I’m happy to provide more if you’d like in PMs.

Yes, your 401k is likely very limited, but you’re also locked into using it while employed (other than an outside Roth, which I’d almost guarantee they’ll recommend). So they can at least provide you guidance on what to do with those funds, as well as offer a better solution for new funds going forward.

The CFP will probably recommend doing a Roth through them, but they also have to give you an allocation recommendation you can use anywhere (i.e. Vanguard, Fidelity, etc.)

Typically, stock market decreases only cause a loss of personal wealth if one sells at a loss. If one holds the paper/digital shares and continues to invest net worth continues to grow when the market recovers. Which it always has and outside of a civilization ending event or a seizing of financial assets by the government will.

That’s an emotional issue and if one is to invest in stocks one has to have the emotions to continue to do so according to one’s long term plan without deviance.

So, you have long term plans and that is to invest now so you can withdraw later. Stocks are a good bet for that depending on time horizon and you mentioned you plan on working 15-20 years. That’s a decent time horizon for stocks. You might also want to consider one of the plans offered that have a balanced portfolio between stocks/bonds/misc that takes into account your age and risk tolerance.

The main question is will you continue to invest in accounts that have lost 45-65% of their value or will you sell at a loss?

Many employers offer a Roth, in addition to traditional 401k, as an elective. It depends on the package that the employer picks with their vendor.

But, yes, one may set up a Roth independent of an employer.

I know some employers offer Roth 401(k) plans in addition to traditional 401(k) plans but do any offer Roth IRA plans? My Roth IRA is one I set up myself through an outside broker.

And my essential point was that it doesn’t matter that @Broomstick’s “employer does not offer a Roth IRA”.

Well, yes, the Roth from an employer is a 401k. Private sector employer plans are 401k (public sector are 457), personal plans are IRA.

Not unkind at all.

I’m well aware that I am, at best, lower-middle-class at the moment and I am very much a small investor. Even a tiny investor. Gotta start somewhere, right?

This was my wife’s plan for me. Just before I retired last October I talked to a financial planner offered through my credit union. She offered 3 options for collecting SS. The first was my wife’s plan, I wait till I’m 70 and she starts collection her SS when she reaches her age to collect of 67. Option 2 was for me to collect at 66 years, 4 months and my wife to collect at 67. Option 3 was for me to wait till I’m 70 and for my wife to start collecting immediately. She then showed what was the best way to maximize SS for our average life spans, for me that would be 78 and for my wife that would be 81. Option 2 was the best way to collect, we would collect the maximum up to our average life spans. Option 1 would require me to live to almost 82 before the total received would equal to option 2. Option 3 was the worst, I would have to live to 86 to match what I would get from option 2. Also, for me anyway, using option 2 means my 401K and savings will last longer, I won’t have to spend it down as fast while waiting till 70 to collect.

Assuming they don’t change the rules, I can start collecting on my late husband’s SS when I turn 60, then get my pension at 65 (when I have to start either monthly or take the lump sum), then at 70 get my own SS, which will be nearly twice my husband’s at that point (I confirmed the amounts and timing with a live human being at SS).

It’s my understanding that I have to start withdrawing from my 401(k) at 70 and 1/2 years.

At which point, depending on how things are going, I might need different investment advice going forward from that point.

Yes. But that doesn’t mean you can’t reinvest it in an unqualified account (i.e. not tax-deferred, like an IRA, 401k or Roth). It’s also a good reason to have a Roth set up, as there is no requirement to withdraw it at any age, because the IRS has already gotten all the taxes out of those funds that it ever will.

You should check on this. I think you need to start RMDs from a traditional IRA at 72 (note that the change of age from 70.5 to 72 is recent) even if you are still working, but not from a 401k as long as you meet some conditions.

And I don’t know if that applies to your current 401k only, or old 401ks if you happen to have old accounts that you never rolled over into your current employer’s 401k.

The following link explains some of the issues (though it still references the 70.5 age since it’s a couple years old). And note that they still point out that all of that is moot if the wording of your particular 401k requires distributions at 70.5. Another reason to ultimately consult a professional if you think you’ll need one.

Sounds complicated, and it might or might not be in your case, but it’s good to know as much as you can, even if you do get professional help.