Right here;
Shame on me? I’m not the one saying displaced Gazans shouldn’t flee and their neighbors shouldn’t offer them asylum. It was obviously wrong for the US to turn away refugees from the Holocaust, yet here we’re being told that it’s wrong to suggest that the US should take in refugees from the genocide they claim is happening right now.
Those people are in Qatar. Qatar is a US ally.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through.
Yes, shame on you. Because you’re so fucking glib about this.
I can fathom no other response to being told that fleeing a genocide is the same as getting genocided.
Shame!
Forget it, he’s rolling.
This is an interesting statement I didn’t expect you to make. I would like to clarify your position, please.
Do you think Israel has a right to self defense? We all do, of course, I’m just starting from common ground.
Do you think Israel has a right to self-determination? Again, of course we all agree on this.
Do you think any other nation has the right to deprive Israel of self-determination unilaterally, under any circumstance?
~Max
“Go after” doesn’t necessarily mean bombing. Israel might have been able to get most of the world on their side after Oct 7th if their leaders had been smart. A coordinated international campaign of diplomacy, sanctions, etc., might have persuaded most of the world to join them to nullify Hamas, destroy their funding and supporter network, and render them defunct. Qatar might have booted them with enough pressure.
Israel’s leaders chose a different path, which has weakened Israel and strengthened their enemies, and killed thousands of civilians for nothing.
EDIT: It’s obvious you’re no longer debating honestly, based on the lies and straw men you’ve relied on. But I’m answering anyway because you’ve been a good poster before. I don’t know why you’re being such a lying asshole now.
“A coordinated campaign of diplomacy, sanctions, etc.” can’t stop missiles from raining down on your cities or guerillas from burning kibbutzers alive.
I think “right” becomes an abstract notion when you’re talking on the level of nation-states. Anyone who thinks they can deprive Israel of self-determination can certainly try. What we’re seeing now is the consequences of that decision. You may as well suggest that America should have responded to Pearl Harbor by complaining to the League of Nations.
No, but a competent IDF can, and has in the past, especially with international cooperation. An incompetent IDF, as we’re seeing now, isn’t really capable of anything but killing lots of civilians.
And they have.
Then how did October 7th happen?
I’m trying to understand what you think. Surely you don’t think anyone who thinks they can deprive Israel of self-determination should try to do so.
Do you think any other nation has the right to deprive Israel of self-determination unilaterally, under any circumstance?
~Max
Geez, what’s the issue guys? It’s only racial cleansing, not ‘genocide’. /s
Because Israel tried to use diplomacy and sanctions against a death cult.
No.
On the international level a nation’s “rights” are a function of what they are capable of. I believe it would be wrong for any nation to attempt to deprive Israel of self-determination, but I know of no basis or means for enforcing such a belief.
Can you explain?
ETA:
I think you’re misinterpreting me. I’m not asking for your opinion on international law. I’m asking whether you think a nation can ever be morally justified in unilaterally depriving Israel of self-determination.
~Max
What a joke. You can’t possibly believe that. How could “negotiations and sanctions” result in a defense force caught with its pants down?
On Earth, what happened was the Israeli right had been surreptitiously aiding Hamas for years (because Hamas was a partner against peace and against two states), and at the same time slowly poisoning the IDF with corruption, bigotry, and more, and focusing on protecting settlers in the West Bank rather than actually defending Israel. And what’s happening now is the same incompetent organization is getting more Israelis killed (and, obviously, killing more Gazans) in the last 7 months than in the couple of decades before that, while accomplishing nothing.