I will look through those and get back to you.
Wait, are you seriously claiming that the Holocaust was the only genocide ever in human history?
Here, I found you some written by Gentiles.
Or you can see for yourself. Load up the Wikipedia entry for “Zionism” and compare what it looks like now to what it looked like before 10/7 and you’ll see it’s been rewritten to paint Zionism in a negative light.
No, I’m claiming it was the worst and that it’s what the word was coined to describe. There have obviously been others. What I’m saying is that if the Gaza war is a genocide, then all war is genocide and the word is just a synonym for war.
…genocide has a very specific definition, as you’ve been told over and over again. It requires the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
The intent is what matters. The intent to destroy in whole or in part. And what Amnesty International have concluded, along with Human Rights Watch, the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, the UN Special Committee, and most recently the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, along with a consensus of genocide scholars and academics, is that Israel are committing genocide in Gaza. They have all independently published evidence. I’ve provided them multiple times in other threads, but I’m happy to provide them again here if you like. There is currently an ongoing case bought by South Africa to the International Court of Justice.
This isn’t “virtue signalling.” Multiple members of the Israeli government are on record being very clear of their genocidal intent. The siege of Gaza that ultimately resulted in famine in parts of Gaza had no justification. It was only ever going to result in people starving to death.
But you know all this. Because I’ve shown you this over and over and over again.
Yes, it does, and antisemitic politicians don’t get to change it.
And there is no intent, nor is an attempt being made.
Then they are wrong.
Which they are being paid to do by Iran.
Which is illegitimate.
You’re right. It’s antisemitism.
The blatherings of backbencher MKs do not constitute government policy.
And 10/7 was just a picnic in the park.
I guess Hamas shouldn’t have started a war against an enemy that outguns and outmans them, then.
…what does this even mean?
I didn’t cite any “antisemitic politicians.” I cited the genocide convention.
You are citing the dictionary. The dictionary matches my description. But my cite has actual legal weight.
And there is no intent, nor is an attempt being made.
Section D, Expressions of Genocidal Intent against the Palestinian People by Israeli State Officialsand Others, page 59 of the South African submission to the International Court of Justice.
Then they are wrong.
LOL. Who do I believe: Amnesty International or some random turd on the internet?
I’ll go with Amnesty.
Which they are being paid to do by Iran.
Cite please.
Which is illegitimate.
Untrue.
You’re right. It’s antisemitism.
It’s the truth. Israel are committing genocide in Gaza.
It isn’t just backbencher MKs. And intent can be derived from actions, policy and strategy.
10/7 was an atrocity and a warcrime, and those in Hamas that were responsible should be held accountable.
Hamas shouldn’t have committed 10/7. We are in 100% agreement.
But Israel are responsible for the way they decided to respond to those attacks. Every atrocity the IDF committed is on them.
And according to Banquet_Bear, the way they should have responded is…?
South Africa’s relations with Iran came under scrutiny after the 7 October 2023 attack on Israel by Hamas, which Iran openly supports. On 22 October, South Africa’s then foreign minister Naledi Pandor visited Tehran and met then president Ebrahim Raisi. At the time, foreign affairs officials told ISS Today she had among other things, delivered an invitation from Ramaphosa to visit South Africa, but that the visit had been called off.
And then in January 2024, the ANC – which had been flirting with insolvency for years – announced it had managed to stabilise its finances without explaining how. Just days earlier, South Africa had charged Israel with genocide in Gaza before the ICJ.
The ANC also aroused suspicion by hosting Hamas leaders for a Palestinian solidarity convention in South Africa shortly after the group attacked Israel.
So there’s a case against Hamas before the ICJ then, right?
…Right?
…they can respond any way they like as long as its in accordance with the Geneva conventions and international humanitarian law.
This isn’t evidence. It’s a conspiracy theory.
Surviving Hamas leadership were indicted by the International Criminal Court.
And if a state wants to bring proceedings against Gaza, then the process is right there. They just need to follow the process.
That’s what I thought. You have no solutions, only complaints.
You mean like “Israel is trying to eradicate the Palestinians”?
So that’s a no, then. I guess nobody offered the ANC enough cash to make it worth their while.
…again: what does this even mean?
I think Israel should comply with the Geneva conventions and international humanitarian law. They can wage the war however they want as long as they are in compliance. How is that not a “solution?”
The wording of the genocide convention is “destroy, in whole or in part.” South Africa makes the case for that here:
That is only a fraction of the evidence provided for the case for genocide. More at the link.
From Ammnesty:
From Human Rights Watch:
From the UN:
Evidence of the first four acts are revealed in the report.
I have provided substantial and damming evidence in support of my claim.
But your cite for your claim that “South Africa were paid to bring the case to the ICJ by Iran” literally says this:
" The timing raised suspicions, and a few commentators opined that Iran had paid off the ANC for taking Israel to court. The ANC and government denied this. A Daily Maverick fact check found no evidence of a payoff…"
Bolding mine. Some commentators had an opinion. There is no evidence to support this opinion.
So what evidence are you talking about again?
Obviously, it’s a no. But if Israel or one of its allies has standing, and they have a case, what is stopping them? That’s how the process works. What do you think this proves? It starts with a state deciding to bring an action against another. If nobody wants to do this that isn’t the fault of the court.
Conspiracy theory.
It means what it says. You’re unwilling or incapable of saying what Israel should do or should have done. All you’ve done for two years now is say that every single thing they have done is wrong.
The wording of the Genocide Convention can kiss my ass. The UN is an illegitimate body and has no right to criticize Israel while it allows Russia to occupy a seat on the Security Council that it is not entitled to and refuses to act on the ACTUAL genocide being committed in Ukraine.
I’ll believe there’s a genocide happening in Gaza when you can show me death camps, and mass graves, and soldiers going house to house apprehending everyone they find, and firing squads lining women and children up in front of trenches, and people being “deported” who never show up anywhere else. The acts you describe aren’t genocide. They’re war. If what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide, then the Allies committed genocide against Germany in 1945 and the North genocided the South in 1864.
…this is a lie. I said Israel could do whatever they liked as long as it’s in compliance with the Geneva conventions and International Humanitarian law.
For two years now, I’ve pointed out warcrimes and atrocities committed by Israel. At its peak Israel were committing multiple atrocities a day. I only ever shared a fraction of all of the evil things they have committed in Gaza and the occupied territories. And they continue to do evil.
I’m glad you are saying the quiet part out loud now.
None of these are required under the genocide convention. And its important to understand why.
"Adopted in the aftermath of the Second World War, the Genocide Convention built up on the statement famously included in the Nuremberg judgement of 1946 that crimes are committed by persons, not by abstract entities.
Accordingly, the Genocide Convention rightly treated atrocities against certain groups as outright crimes, whether committed in times of peace or time of war. Crimes are committed by individuals, who must be held accountable, regardless of “whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals”. "
It shouldn’t matter if there are “firing squads lining up women and children in trenches” or if people are forced to “run the gauntlet” as they had to in Gaza as they tried to get food from the GHF. 2500 people were massacred running that gauntlet. Thousands more were injured. That it doesn’t fit your “narrow little box” of what genocide is doesn’t matter because the genocide convention purposefully isn’t that narrow.
Again: you are missing intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a particular national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. The allies didn’t intend to destroy Germans just for being German. Intent and the target make the difference.
Can you show us the death camps, and mass graves, and soldiers going house to house apprehending everyone they find, and firing squads lining women and children up in front of trenches, and people being “deported” who never show up anywhere else in Ukraine?
Or, as a powerful demon controlling wizard put it,
What I’m saying is that if the Ukraine war is a genocide, then all war is genocide and the word is just a synonym for war.
Such as…?
Which Israel does not possess.
Why, yes, I can!
Death camps;
Mass graves;
Mass depopulation;
Mass execution of civilians;
Disappearances disguised as deportations;
Russia is committing an actual genocide in Ukraine. It has been attempting to distract westerners from this by creating a narrative about an imaginary genocide in Gaza. It is apparently working.
So, now Wikipedia is a reliable source!
In general, it is. On matters regarding Israel, it has not been since 10/7.
…do you not understand what “whatever they liked” means?
My constraints are the tactics and strategy need to be in compliance with the Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law. What don’t you understand here?
Which Israel does not possess.
The South African case to the ICJ, Ammnesty International, HRW, The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel have all presented evidence, both in words, and examining the actions, strategy and tactics used since October the 7th, that suggest yes they do.
If this counts: then so does Sde Teiman and the other network of torture camps.
Mass graves in Gaza:
Massacres:
(spoiled because it has photos of dead people)
The only people attempting to distract from genocide are genocide deniers like you.
Which, per your cite, resulted in multiple people going to prison and facing criminal charges.
Israel holds people criminally responsible when they cross the line. No intent to commit genocide.
On this week’s episode of Quantum Leap, Banquet_Bear has leapt into the body of Benjamin Netenyahu. It is October 8th, 2023. The IDF wants to know how they should respond to the attack. What is your response?