Smapti's Continuing Adventures in Judaism: First Seder

To be precise, it’s $108 a month for a single-adult household and $208 a month for a two-adult household. Kids get in free with their parents’ membership. You don’t have to be a member to attend services, but members get discounts on ticketed events such as the Seder I went to and on things like their weekly Hebrew class along with various other perks. I was told there are about 300 families who are paying members.

The way I do it is to put the eggs in a saucepan and add just enough cold water to cover them. I put it on the stove at high heat and let it come to a boil. As soon as it comes to a rolling boil, I take it off the heat, cover it, and let it stand for 20 minutes, then pour off the water and rinse them in cold water. You get a reliably consistant hard boil with no sulfur ring.

You can also sous vide them if you have an immersion cooker - 170 degrees for 40 minutes.

I, for one, am glad for that as I like horseradish.

I used my instant pot, which has worked well in the past. I still need to debug what went wrong.

Exactly my mom’s recipe!

Update on this point: I emailed the rabbi and got an answer back. He said there was a beet in lieu of a lamb bone on the ceremonial plate he used at the podium on behalf of the rest of the congregation, but since it’s purely symbolic and isn’t meant to be eaten, they don’t distribute them to everyone else like the other ritual foods.

My experience with Jewish synagogue/community events is that, unlike Christian events where part of the proceedings involves begging for donations, the Jewish community totals up the estimated cost, divides by the expected number of attendees, and that’s how much it costs.

There are some wealthy individuals who donate additional funds which covers folks with hardship issues. For example, this past September my local synagogue waived my entire fee for the High Holidays because I’d lost a LOT of work due to health issues. But you have to be very well known to the community/a member. If you’re new you’re asked for the full fee.

In addition to the price of admission for our Seder this year - $18 per single adult - we were also expected to bring food. My assignment was 5 pounds of fresh asparagus. Last year I was asked for three dozen eggs. We also asked to bring a bottle of either kosher wine or grape juice, which is $15 and up. Want to take leftovers home? You have to make a donation to the charity box (tzedakah). Some folks weren’t asked for material contributions but rather time - the matzo ball soup wasn’t from a mix, for example, it was made from scratch by which I mean not only were the matzo balls made by hand but the broth was also made from scratch.

I probably put $40 or more into my part of the community Seder this year. Doing it ourselves keeps the cost down. Having the event catered? Yeah, $75 isn’t that outlandish.

With my own synagogues BYOB approach we wind up with a very eclectic collection of wine and grape juice to sample. Thank goodness there’s a wider variety than there used to be.

The TRADITION!!! side of Jewish-American Ashkenazi Seders has long leaned heavily on the Manischewicz brand, and those wines are definitely sweet and strong. But just as we had some traditional Sephardic foods we also had beverages outside that TRADITION!!!

Also plenty of non-alcoholic versions of same. I had actual wine for my first cup, but after that it was kosher grape juice, which is just unfermented wine, of course. :wink:

Some of the best advice I’ve ever had about Seders: have a snack before you leave for the event. There is a meal in there, but it’s a couple hours into the proceedings.

Yes, mine does. However, the proceedings are broken down into discreet events so if, as for many working folks, you can only attend some and not all you only need to pay for what you actually go to. And, as I mentioned, in some cases of hardship there are reduced or even waived fees.

Yes, synagogues have fees and charges. In my experience, though, they’re very upfront on the costs. They don’t beg for money, they figure out how much something costs, figure out how much that is divided among individuals, and that’s the cost per person. If there isn’t enough interest to cover the cost then the event either doesn’t happen or is scaled back.

Regrettably, repaving the parking lot was deferred not only due to problems raising sufficient funds for the work but also because our security costs have increased substantially in recent years/months.

I was told that the temple I’ve been going to, which is in a 120-year-old building that used to be a Christian Science church, got a grant from Homeland Security to build the heavy iron fence that now surrounds it. They’re definitely secure from any kind of vehicle attack at least. I haven’t seen anyone actually working security aside from the greeters, and here in hippy-dippy progressive Olympia at this very left-wing, LGBT-supporting, pro-immigrant (they have apparently even let some migrant families live in the temple over the last few years to protect them from ICE) temple there’s probably not enough danger to warrant having them, but just because I can’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

We have paid security these days. :cry: We have since the attack at the tree of life synagogue in Philadelphia, in 2018. The greeters also get a little formal security training.

thx for the thorough writeup … that is welcome …

Living in a LatAm country, w/ way lower income this ($75 event) threw me off, as it would exclude a large percentage and would convert it into a “for rich people only” event. Hence my raised eyebrow.

I assume in poorer parts of the country, events are lower priced / less elaborate / more DIY to keep somewhat of a community going (as opposed to: the richest 20% can take part in this religious ceremony, the other 80% cant) …

any take on - say - how a synagogue in rural Luisiana (=similar per capita income as my residencial country) would handle that?

ps: not sure I’d use the word “beg” for what cath/protestant churches are doing … there is a basket being passed through the files and you can put whatever is your desire into it…(not very visible if or what you put into it) No real social pressure here…

I think we are each discomfited by what we aren’t used to. It sure looks like begging to me when that basket goes around. And it’s more anonymous in some churches than in others what you put in it.

I think a major difference is that Judaism doesn’t proselytize, so we don’t have any motive to give away “free samples”. Although of course it’s usually free to attend a random Sabbath service, because the place isn’t full and the marginal cost of another head is zero.

Well, the obvious way to cut costs would be to make it a potluck. But that can be tricky during Passover, since the dietary laws are complicated and (in non-Orthodox communities) people vary widely in terms of how much they care about them. So someone who is relatively strict in their observance might not feel comfortable eating food prepared by some random member of the congregation.

(Of course, this could come up anytime, since there are dietary laws which apply all year round, but for whatever reason a lot of Jews who are pretty lax about keeping kosher in general get very OCD around Passover)

Some synagogues don’t have a community Seder at all, and just offer “matchmaking” services to make sure that everyone is able to get an invitation to a home-based Seder.

On a related note, the Chabad sect, which is all about proselytizing, albeit only to other Jews, offers free, lavishly catered seders in thousands of locations around the world!

^ This.

My words were those of an outsider looking in.

Well… last I heard the Jews in Louisiana are primarily urban. That doesn’t entirely rule out rural Jews in the bayou but it’s possible there are no synagogues outside of urban areas.

However, it’s important to understand that while synagogues are important (especially since the destruction of the Second Temple) they are not exact equivalents of Christian churches, nor are they in any way required for Jewish worship.

The holy part of a synagogue is not the building. The holy part are the torah scrolls.

So… a hypothetical very poor Jewish community (anywhere) might not have a discreet “synagogue” structure at all. They are not required. They might meet in some other building, or someone’s home, or even outside (though the scrolls would need to be properly sheltered from inclement weather, and hopefully those gathered as well). 10 Jews able to read the torah (called a minyan) and torah scrolls are the most that’s needed for ceremony, and quite a few prayers, ritual observances, and so forth not only do not require a torah or minyan but are routinely done without them. Such a community would, presumably, rely a lot on pot-luck for festivals.

Our local Chabad family holds their services and programs entirely within their home and an annex to that home. They are, of course, welcome at the other synagogues and community centers and do participate with some events, but you could either say they exist outside of a synagogue or that their synagogue is their own home.

My synagogue held its communal Seder in the synagogue not because it has to be there but because it was a convenient location. We didn’t use the torah at all, the rabbi wasn’t present (he’s not necessary even if we do like to have him act as leader). We’ve held weekly services in other places, most recently in a deli just across the border in Illinois.

Some small Jewish communities have been known to meet in space borrowed from Christian churches, as well as after natural disasters, fires, and so forth. Wouldn’t surprise me if in a small rural community the local Jews do that routinely, or meet in some community center, or school building, or the like. Or someone’s home.

Or they have a really stripped down, minimal synagogue that’s just a large room and a place to house the torah scrolls.

Are all kosher wines sweet or is that simply a Manischewicz thing?

I’ve seen churches buy former synagogues. I’ve seen Jews meet in a church & both Christian & Hindus meet in a synagogue. It’s a good fit in that physical setting is similar (seats/pews & an altar) & that they meet on different days; what is typically down time at the hosting facility. It’s extra income for the hosting facility & an inexpensive way to start a new congregation / long term temp housing after a disaster for an existing congregation.

Small groups of Jews routinely meet in someone’s living room. I know both conservative and Orthodox Jews who do this. And there’s no requirement to have a rabbi. In smaller groups, the adult men (or adults, for conservatives) often just take turns leading the service. Paid clergy are a luxury that larger groups invest in.

On the other hand, I’ve been to a very large conservative congregation in NYC that shares a building with a church. They hang a huge banner with the opening line of psalm 133 Psalm 133 (in Hebrew) covering the cross during the Jewish services.

That’s just a Manischewitz thing. Most kosher wine is fairly ordinary wine, although usually low quality and over priced. The only thing that differentiates kosher wine from any other wine is that it’s been supervised by Orthodox Jews from when the grapes are harvested until the wine is bottled to make sure that none of it was used to make sacrifices to false gods. When the rules were set, that was a common thing. It’s not any more, and other than some Manischewitz for the charoset, i never buy kosher wine.

It’s a Manischewitz thing. The early kosher sacramental wines in the US were made from crappy Concord grapes, which needed the sugar to be drinkable. There are good kosher wines made in Israel, the US, and other wine growing countries now.

The seder is really meant to be a family thing, and the leader is just one of the adults who is there. Synagogues organize seders for the same reason people organize “friendsgiving” dinners, so that everyone can attend one, even the people who don’t have a pack of family nearby that they want to celebrate with.