Smoking: America vs. Europe

Factual Questions
1

Since I’ve been studying for finals this past week, I have also been smoking, because it keeps me up* and offers me a nice, short buzz-break every hundred page or so.

During this past smoke-break, I started thinking about how, when I went to France over spring break, EVERYONE seemed to smoke, and no one seemed worried about lung cancer or premature babies or increased risks of stroke or anything. Now, I know, of course, that everyone doesnt really smoke, and that the smokers might very well be secretly worried about smoking’s negative side effects, but it seemed that the attitude towards cigerettes was very different than in America.

Can anyone tell me why? Also, more importantly, what are the rates of lung cancer (and other smoking-related diseases) in Europe?

[I might be wrong about the differing attitude, also - the people I hung around with were mostly college age/early twenties, so it’s not like I was studying a large portion of the population, so if any European Dopers feel the need to set me straight, please do so.]

*I am not sure if the whole “keeps me up” thing is an actual affect of nicotine, or if I just think cigerettes are supposed to keep you awake. If cigerettes actually have no affect on alertness levels, PLEASE do not tell me, or else I will lose the placebo affect and fall asleep. However, if they DO help keep you awake, feel free to reassure me.

2

From what I’ve learned from friends in Japan, they’re starting to annoy smokers there also, though not as insanely as in America. In fact, I don’t think any other country is as overzealous and completely insane about it as here. The British, Canadians, Australians, Norwegians and Sweden are all trying to get people to stop smoking.

Funny though, in Amsterdam, they’re even against smoking but they’ll legally sell you almost any drug you care to screw yourself up with.

No one, to my understanding, is working on a safer cigarette. RJ Reynolds Tobacco has produced two, but one tasted bad and the other was killed off by the FDA because they were ‘illegally producing a controlled substance.’ That smoke had a capsule of nicotine heated by a slow burning hot point, which gave you very little smoke and trace vapors of the drug smokers crave.

You still can buy herbal smokes, which give you the same basic stuff everyone is yelling about, except nicotine.

Nor are the tobacco companies willing to change their formula for smokes, like removing the additives that make a cigarette burn easier, changing the cheap acid cured paper they are wrapped in for cheap, better rice paper. A lot of the additives are what is so bad.

That’s why you can still buy cigarettes made out of herbs, lettuce, even coconut husks, ginseng and, at one time, cloves.

Give it a few years and the Mafia will be importing cigarettes to sell cheaply to smokers and will be making millions.

I can understand why so many kids are smoking, here and overseas, along with adults.

Without all of the fanfare, they’re making it almost impossible to have fun at a bar, like they used to, and you can go to jail for showing .08 blood alcohol, even though that is the legal limit. (Two friends of mine showed .08 and were arrested!) They’re arresting more and more people for DUI. Pot will never be make legal, even though it should be. The other feel good drugs can get you killed and addicted real fast. Coffee goes from good to bad and back again so no one knows if it’s safe or not. Herbal drugs, like Kava Kava, don’t do much for you.

So, it seems the best anyone is allowed to feel is when they first wake up in the morning, if then.

People will always find some artificial means of making themselves feel good, legally or illegally.

3

Nicotine is, of course, a stimulant. The psychological effect of smoking a cigarrette can be stronger than this stimulant, however, in doing whatever you expect it to do. Many people smoke before bedtime as it calms their nerves, and by golly it does.

As a sidenote to this, smokers have about the same concentration levels as non-smokers. However, give a non-smoker a cigarette and their concentrations levels drop dramatically. Deprive a smoker of his cigarettes and the result is similar.

Dunno about the rest of the world but you can smoke in Gatwick airport in England just about anywhere (oh, they have designated smoking areas, but unlike the US these areas aren’t the “outside of the airport”).

4

Not true. While you can buy weed and pot almost legally, all other drugs (except for the ones found in the ‘smart shops’) are as illegal as anywhere else.

Here in Holland, we all know that smoking is bad. However, since this is a free country, and nicotine and tobacco are not illegal substances, we feel that you should be allowed to smoke. We Dutch like to think of ourselves as tolerant, and feel that we should give the smoker and non smoker an even amount of respect in their habits. So, while it is not allowed to smoke in public buildings (libraries, city halls, etc.) there is a seperate section for smokers almost anywhere else. Companies may decide for themselves if it is allowed to smoke on the work floor, but legally they have to forbid it if anyone else has a problem with that.

Basically, the theme for the whole smoking vs. non smoking debate is resolved with the following motto:

“Smoking? We will resolve it together”

Meaning that we don’t need a government telling us when and where people may or may not smoke.

5

Here in Ireland it is reasonably acceptable to smoke and although laws have been enacted requireing restaurants and pubs to ensure at least 30% of their space is non-smoking it is not widely enforced or respected.

In Finland I (as a smoker) was dissapointed at the unusual law which allowed smoking in all bars except for at the counter . A move , I suspect, in deference to the staff but not entirely effective. I did notice that considerably less people seem to smoke there.

In France it would appear obligitary to smoke. It is the only place I have ever been where it is completely acceptable to approach a stranger on the street and ask for a cigarette. Anywhere else you might be classed as a bum but whilst there I noticed that simply brandishing a pack in public was tantamount to offering all a sundry a smoke.

Whne I lived in Japan I noticed a distinct and tangable anti smoker attitude although at the time there were few actual restictions. It was generally regarded as undesirable to smoke in company.

6

Generally there is more tolerance towards smoking outside of the US though my impression when travelling is that is changing somewhat; we like a nanny government here, it seems.

FWIW: Two years ago I was in Barcelona for my little brother’s wedding. There were about 200 people there, mostly young -late 20s/early 30s- successful ad exec types. I think there were perhaps a dozen non-smokers…everone else was smoking like chimneys. I started noticing that many of the younger people were already showing signs of long-time smoking…lines around the mouth, thinner facial skin. While everyone realises it’s bad for one’s health, generally, people there don’t seem to care as much. My sister-in-law’s older sis had recently died in her mid thirties on lung cancer, and yet the whole family still smoked. Perhaps it’s to do with a different set of values, we in the US seem more concerned about health & fitness than many other places.

OTOH, it is less common to see fat people outside of the US.

And it is true that nicotine is a stimulant. I read of a trial where nicotine patches were successfully used on Alzeimers patients to slow the onset of the disease. I don’t think smoking is generally a great way to boost concentration, though, if you’re not already a smoker, as aynrandlover says.

7

Recent surveys have shown that in Britain Smoking is on the increase in young people. I can’t find a a cite right now but this http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010429/11/boiev.html new story has some figures related to smoking.

I am early 20’s and most people I know don’t smoke or are giving up . . We have shopping malls that are completely no smoking and other public buildings often are as well. I have find that most non smokers tend to tolerate smokers.

8

Illustrative point:

I was in Spain in 1982, and at that time radio public service announcements were advising smokers to smoke cigarettes with filters (“Pon un boquillo entre tu y tu cigarillo”).

I think in some countries the will to enjoy yourself still bests the will to be healthy.

9

In 1998, I had a chance to see the World Basketball Finals played in Athens at the (soon to be) Olympic Basketball arena. My cousin was dating the court manager and he got us great seats. We got to see the semi-final and final games between the Soviet Union, Greece, U.S.A., and some other team I don’t remember (the NBA was on strike, so it was a bunch of no-names).

ANYWAY, we were just into the first game when I asked my cousins bf where I could go to smoke. He said, “right here!”. Sure enough, as I looked around I began to notice that folks were openly smoking and putting out their butts on the floor! By the time the second game started, the arena had a smoky haze that almost reached the playing floor! Must have been great for the athletes. sigh

I have been to Greece (many times) and Spain and have noticed the same thing as the OP. I wager a guess that about 80-85% of their populations smoke regularly.

10

I have lived in Munich Germany for the last 3 years and am not so much shocked anymore about the amount of people smoking, as I am for the reason why they smoke in the first place. A good friend of mine started smoking because she wanted to lose weight. She did not particularlly like the taste but hey! she lost a few kilos so keep it up! When I go out with females my age, I am normally the only one with a beer in my hand. (And good beer, I might add) They drink water after water, and smoke cigarette after cigarette. They also constantly complain about how “fat” they are. Is it any wonder why I prefer to hang out with Deutsche Männer? I’d prefer a fat non-smoking American over a skinny, smoky German any day!

11

[Moderator watch ON]

We had a similar thread a month or two ago, which quickly degenerated into a flamefest free-for-all. I don’t want to see that happen again. In that interest, feel free to post observations of attitudes in other countries, and speculation as to the cause of those attitudes, but please do not make any sort of judgement, explicit or implied, about whether those attitudes are good or bad.

12

" . . . please do not make any sort of judgement, explicit or implied, about whether those attitudes are good or bad."

Then will you please tell the aptly-named CheezedOff (“smoke
Nazi’s, forcing smokers to stand outside by the garbage cans to smoke,” “I don’t think any other country is as overzealous and completely insane about it as here”) to take his, umm, “opnions” to the Pit where they belong and where they can be more appropriately responded to?

—Eve [being ever so polite and ladylike]

13

I certainly think so…
I posted a thread about this, but no responses unfortunately

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=66093

14

FBI Man: “Say! These taste different…they that French brand?”

Lulu (attractive reefer-smoking viper fiend): “No…Mexican.”

– Dope Comix, 1974

15

Interestingly enough Salt Lake City’s airport has several smoking rooms quite close to the gates. Virtually anywhere else you go the “Utah Clean Air Act” prohibits smoking in public areas.

16

I can do better than that, Eve. People, an open warning: If you call anyone a Nazi in this forum, do not be surprised if your posts disappear, and don’t go complaining to me asking what happened to them.

17

Thanks Aghris for educating our friend CheezedOff back there. The minute they’ll ban smoking from bars in the Netherlands, I’m predicting mass riots, BTW.

Also, it never fails to amaze me how a liberal soft drugs policy (that’s what we call marihuana, hash, weed, whatever) leads a lot of people to believe you live in a country where you can buy crack by the kilo at the local supermarket.

18

BTW, I did not call any** one** person a ‘smoke Nazi,’ but used the label to refer to those who are overzealous and tend to impose their beliefs on others.

But, I’ll let it ride.

BTW, my information on Amsterdam came from several people I know going there and buying things aside from pot. One was some sort of ‘cookie’ that when eaten gave one guy a heck of a buzz. If I’m misinformed, then I apologize.

Well, do other nations have their own way of preparing cigarettes different from in the US? Some friends of mine love to buy the hard to get English smokes, and I know people who take sailboats from the Florida Keys, go to Cuba and buy boxes of their cigars and smuggle them back here, claiming they are the finest cigars ever tasted. I don’t know. I dislike cigars. I once got some Russian smokes, which were 50% filter, burned slowly and were strong and not too bad. Nice for a short smoke. They were packed more firmly than American smokes and surprisingly good.

I talked to a tobacconist, who told me that good tobacco sellers do not add anything to their tobacco for pipes, the flavors are natural and they carefully watch the moisture content. Like, if you want Vanilla tobacco, you by some mild cut, unflavored, cut up a vanilla bean and toss it in, add a few drops of water, mix it all up, seal it tightly and let it sit for a week or so. When you open it up, you have a vanilla flavored smoke. He said that all packaged aromatic tobaccos sold in portion pouches in stores have chemicals added to preserve them and control burning. He feels, and I agree, that things like saltpeter added, contribute heavily to the health problems caused by cigarettes.

I wonder if anyone has done a study to determine what smokers get the worst health problems: those who smoke ‘natural’ untreated tobacco or those who smoke the average, heavily treated cigarettes. A lot of pipe smokers, who are prone to oral cancer, mainly smoke packaged tobacco, bought at a drug store, or those big tins, and all of those have chemicals added.

I love the smell of a pipe.

19

Sure, it’s possible to buy any drug under the sun in Amsterdam, but that doesn’t make it legal. Can you name one western metropolitan city where it’s impossible to buy illegal drugs?
The “cookie” you refer to is probably what we call SpaceCake: basically a brownie with marihuana in it. The buzz depends heavily on the amount actually included, of course.

And one more thing: Nazis invade Poland and stuff. They even smoked like chimneys, or so I hear.

20

Can I just say (because it doesn’t seem to have been mentioned so far) that I don’t find anti-smoking sentiment fascistic? I happen to dislike the smell of cigarette smoke and I don’t like having to experience it while in a public place, especially while eating. I feel that good smoking etiquette requires a smoker to ask the people around him or her if it is ok to light up. In public places this isn’t always feasible which is why I agree with laws that prohibit smoking in these places.

Look, either we regulate all drug use or we develop some societal norms regulating their use. That’s just my opinion, but I think it stands up pretty well.

For what it is worth, I too noticed that Europeans tended to be more casual about smoking than Americans. (Or so it seemed to me).