My dad adored Clemente. He saw lots of visiting teams come through Pittsburgh and said very few players had his kind of talent or ability to come through in the pinch.
Growing up a generation later, I loved Willie Stargell for not only being a tremendously exciting power hitter, but also a great team leader and one of the game’s finest gentlemen.
I think you are drawn to the personalities of your home team, and Pittsburgh had some big ones.
The guy who originally asked me the question also adored Clemente. “Adored” is totally the word for it. It was his answer to the same question.
Wiki Rickey for some good reading. Some of the famous quotes, some insight into the man, and a great quote from Bill James.
I hate being the one who corrects stuff like this, but this is of course not true. Rickey stole 1406 bases to Brock’s 938, a difference of 468 steals. 468 steals would make you tied for 42nd, with Tommy McCarthy, not in the top 25.
To crack top the 25 you need 557 steals to tie Davey Lopes.
Of course, the central point that Henderson is WAY out in front of anyone else is still entirely true. There’s no other major offensive accomplishment I can think of where someone so completely dominates the historical standard. Henderson’s also unusual in that he holds the single season and career records, which, when you think about it, is not true of almost any other statistic; it’s also true of walks and will soon be true of homers but I can’t think of any other examples, and Bonds doesn’t domninate those categories like Henderson dominates swipes.
It’s amazing. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Clemente, but of course he died shortly before my third birthday, so I have no direct memory of the guy.
People of my dad’s generation, in Pittsburgh, who often went to Forbes Field and saw games from cheap grandstand seats, had a connection with Clemente - they truly adored him and loved him as one of their own.
Sadly, Clemente couldn’t return the love fully. Early on when he moved to Pittsburgh he and his family had been hassled by bigots, and he bridled at the organization and especially the radio announcers constantly trying to call him “Bobby.”
My dad has often said that Clemente would be even more highly regarded by baseball historians had he played for the Dodgers or Yankees in his career. Given the journeyman quality of most of his teammates, and the fact that he played nearly all of his home games in a park that hitters hated, I think there is something to be said for this theory.
My bad. Repeating bad info.
Rickey used to hold career walks, too. A record that one might feel the same way about being broken as one does about Aaron’s record being broken (although Bonds is OUT THERE on that one).
George Bell. He told the press (or management, or the fans – can’t remember) to kiss his royal purple ass. A pretty lame reason for a favorite player, but there it is. I also liked Willie Upshaw and Lloyd Moseby. Yes, I lived in Toronto for a while there.
Rickey’s walk totals are amazing, considering that nobody in his right mind would walk the guy on purpose - the most dangerous base stealer in the world, with (in Oakland) one of the most loaded 2-5s in history waiting behind him. That he collected as many walks as he did is testament to his eyes and patience as well as his longevity.
He also had a miniscule strike zone. He’d crouch way down when he hit. Normally this doesn’t work because the umpire is supposed to call the strikes according to your strike zone when you’re prepared to strike the ball, so that batters can’t just get down on their haunches and make the strike zone two inches high.
But the thing is, Rickey actually DID hit like that, so that was his legitimate strike zone. I don’t know how, but he never came out of that crouch when he swung the bat.
I grew up in Western Pennsylvania and had the fortune to see several Pirate games at Forbes Field and at Three Rivers Stadium when he played, and of course saw countless Pirates games on TV. Eventually the announcers, Bob Prince in particular, had the good sense to begin referring to him as Roberto. Prince even began to refer to him as “The Great One” a la Jackie Gleason.
He had tremendous respect from people as one of the greatest players of his generation. I don’t think he got his due respect as a human being until after his death. His tremendous compassion and humanitarianism of his relief efforts for the earthquake victims in Nicaragua, as well as his self sacrifice, cemented his instant induction into Cooperstown, waiving the normal 5-year waiting period.
I believe Mickey Rivers and Paul Blair had the same strike zone without any of Rickey’s power of course. I am pretty sure there have been a few other lead off hitters with similar strike zones. Again, none with Rickey’s power. I keep thinking the Royals had a lead off hitter in the 70s with a similar stance. Any KC fans out there?
Jim
Ken Griffey Jr.
Not surprised to not see him on the list thus far. Truly a testament to how tightly the lips of the fans are wrapped around the media’s collective… well, you get the idea.
Eh…he’s just been frustrating over the last few years, for reasons (injury) largely beyond his control. In his healthy early prime, he was something else.
Heh. If you’d asked me in 1996 or so who my non-hometown favorite baseball player was, it would have been Ken Griffey Jr. and Barry Bonds in a dead heat. Funny how things have changed…
With one and only one exception, one that Rickey himself pointed out many times: he could never steal on Bob Boone!
For some reason that Rickey never figured out, Bob Boone (who was well past his prime by the time he played in the American League) always knew when Rickey was going, and was almost always ready with a perfect throw to second.
You rang?
The Royals lead-off hitter in the late 70’s was Willie Wilson, whose stats very much resembled Rickey Henderson’s (with less power), but I don’t recall his stance being such a deep crouch. I think Al Cowens led off before Willie came up, but I have no first-hand knowledge of his stance.
I made a joking answer to the OP upthread, but my real answer would be Cal Ripken, Jr. Growing up in Maryland in the 80s and early 90s, it could be no one else. I don’t think for a moment that he was perfect, or any kind of saint, but he was always my guy.
Willie didn’t crouch. Actually, aside from high steals totals, he wasn’t anything at all like Rickey Henderson. He was a no-walk slap hitter who got on base only when his batting average was high (and he did win a batting title.)
Wilson was actually a LOT faster than Rickey. Rickey was fast but in terms of flat out speed, he wasn’t actually the fastest runner in the majors at any time he played. Willie Wilson was unbelievably fast. He was also a better defensive outfielder than Rickey.
Willie was also one of the best percentage basestealers of all time, better even than Rickey.
I don’t think it was Cowens I was thinking of, maybe Freddie Patek. (Who was not the lead off hitter, so my memory is faulty anyway)
Jim
Satchel Paige.
If I thought about it a bit, it has to be Jackie Robinson, who in addition to being a fantastic player also did something that truly transcended the game and changed society, and did it with class.
If Patek crouched, I don’t think he’d have had any strike zone at all.
That’s who I was coming in to say. I don’t follow baseball, so the names that stick in my mind are the names that have become famous for other reasons besides their impressive stats. Jackie Robinson was a true role model for other reasons besides his baseball prowess.
I’ll add another Jackie: Jackie Mitchell, “The Girl Who Struck Out Babe Ruth” ( http://www.exploratorium.edu/baseball/mitchell.html ) After an impressive exhibition game, a Baseball Commissioner voidedher contract saying that baseball was “too strenuous” for a woman.