Snape (Harry Potter book SPOILERS)

Hi all…

Very vague unboxed spoiler ahead…

Am I the only one that said NO!! when reading the end of The Half Blood Prince ? Why do I like Snape so much… anyone? Why was I so relieved when I read (in the HBP book thread) that he may have had a good reason to do what he did? Why am I dreading finding out that he didn’t have a good reason in book 7? Is it just that I really dig Alan Rickman and can’t believe him to be evil :smiley:

I was going to box a spoiler but I can’t figure it out, so if anyone else posts actual spoilers, please box them :).

I have nothing to say about Harry Potter, but boxing spoilers is very simple: just put the word “spoiler” in square brackets at the beginning, and the again at the end but with a slash before the word. Like this (intentionally misspelled the first time so it won’t become a box):

A wizard did it!


A wizard did it!

Snape’s my favourite as well. I just hope JKR doesn’t kill him in Book 7. Maybe he’ll end up as the new Headmaster of Hogwarts? That’d be cool.

I polished the book off quick when it was released and then came here and read thru the threads for the next week. I just started it again, hoping to gain new insight with a slower, more careful reading while keeping in mind what I read on these boards.

I hate Snape, but want badly to find out that I was wrong, he really is one of the good guys.

Luckily, JKR keeps me guessing pretty well. :smiley: That’s prolly one of my favorite things about these books.

I think the love for Snape is a combination of people’s need/ability to love the underdog and because Snape is significantly more sympathetic in the movies than in the books. (Due in no small part to Alan Rickman. That voice! If I knew him, I think I’d just hand the phonebook and ask him to start with Aaron Aarons and keep on reading to Zebediah Zwolanek.)

My personal take on Snape is that, while he is essentially honorable, he is also very good holding grudges, incapable of the fine art of “live and let live.” He gives of a very strong Victorian vibe to me. (Of course, the whole wizarding world gives off a very Victorian vibe to me.) Blood’s very important; what’s in Harry’s dad is in Harry. Something’s made him very bitter, and it’s not just what happened at school. I think he feels his double-identity intensely, and wants nothing more than a little respect and trust. This rock-and-a-hard-place position that he’s in is in fierce opposition to his almost chivalric sense of honor. It’s almost as if Snape isn’t entirely socially/emotionally mature.

Despite all of that, I feel so much sympathy and pity for Snape. I want to . . . mother him, I guess. I want to fix him – show him kindness and give him a few good memories. Just be his friend without demanding anything extraordinary from him, if that makes any sense. If he bites it in the next book, I’m going to be pissed. If anyone dies (with the exception of Voldemort and sundry Death Eaters), I’m going to be upset, especially if it’s McGonagall, Hermione, Ron, or any of the Weaseleys. Looks like I might be in for a world of pain . . .

Smokinjbc, you can do as Biffy suggested with spoiler tags, or you can put the word “SPOILERS” in the thread title. Either or both work. (I’ve edited your thread title to resolve this one…)

Have you seen Die Hard?

I’ve thought Snape to secretly be a Good Guy from early on in the novels, but I kept rooting for Gul Dukat to turn good on DS9. :slight_smile:

I don’t think Snape is evil. I think Dumbledore was pleading with Snape at the end, not to save him, but to continue with the plan-- some secret endgame plan that we are not yet privy to.

The way Dumbledore insisted that he did not want to go to the infirmary but wanted no one but Snape. The way Dumby pleaded, “Severis, please!” I can’t imagine Dumbledore pleading for his life that way but it is easy to imagine him pleading for Snape to do something that Snape did not want to do.

I just finished the book last night, and that was my impression also. The narrative is usually from Harry’s POV, so it is easy for her to throw red herrings at us as she weaves the story. Harry is still young and nieve enough to take things at face value and make decisions about people’s actions based on his own emotions and still very limited experience. When Snape killed Dumbledore, he did it to ensure that Malfoy didn’t, and interfered with Voldemort’s plan to assimilate Draco. I also think that Snape planted that book on purpose for Harry to find, and that Dumbledor moving Snapes to DoDA teacher was on purpose. Snape didn’t want to know if Harry had the book so he could confiscate it, he wanted to make sure it was in Harry’s possession. Since Harry hid it in the cabinet, it is entirely likely that Malfoy has found it. Doh! I was also not surprised that Dumbledore was the deader in this one. Literary convention demanded it.

I was surprised to find that Malfoy was up to serious no-good, I was sure that Voldemort had set him up as a distraction for Harry to hide the real plan.

I would just like to add that I have not read the other HP thread, so I’m sure other people have come to the same conclusions.

I had been hoping that Harry would eventually just lose in with Snape, telling him to start acting good if he is really supposed to be good. Then, I hoped Snape would start to come around and be decent to him.

I’m let down to see how Rowling took his character, but it is her story and it still reads well.

I blame Alan Rickman for my undying lust for Snape, well, that and my bad boy complex. I started reading fan fic just to read about Snape and Hermione (she’s a lot like me) having hot greasy sex. By the way any of you have suggestions for good Snape Hermione fan fic? I am so ashamed, yet aroused.

Rowling has spent too much time developing Snape as a character for hime to be evil. Snape was arguing with Dumbledore in the forest because Dumbledore was telling Sanpe that if it came down to it, Snape would have to kill Dumbledore. I wasn’t as high on this theory the first time I read HBP, but now I am sure.

I think it’s also guaranteed that Snape’s secret reason for being loyal has something to do with Lilly. We know that Lilly and Snape were bother very good at potions, yet no one ever mentions this. I bet they were potions partners because Lilly was kind enough to take on the boy no one liked. They both worked on the HBP book and it was Lilly’s death that threw Snape over to the side of happiness. Poor Harry’s going to have a heart-attack when he thinks about the great greasy git having the hots for his mom.

I’m so sorry. I swear I can spell and use correct grammar, really!

Sigh, that’s why I is smart. :frowning:

Now I see this differently. Snape is mean to Harry because he has to be. Now don’t get me wrong here; Snape *likes * being mean. It’s a power trip. But he’s really mean to Harry because of Voldemort. Snape is a good legilimens but freely admits that Voldie is better. So Snape, for self-preservation, never lets his anger toward Harry soften, because the next time Snape is called before Voldie will be his last.

Or not. Just a thought.

Noted the second time through:

In a couple of places, the comment is made that Harry is “learning more from the Half-Blood Prince than he ever did from Snape.” Heh.

Further speculation: if S knows V is going after infant Harry, maybe he makes V promise not to kill Lily. “Stand aside you stupid girl,:” then, being V, he kills her anyway. S snaps.

I read that as “gassy” and thought. “Okay, this is damn knky for me.”

That would look nice on my tombstone. :slight_smile:

Too damn kinky.

I can’t spell either.

I can’t imagine Albus (“Next Great Adventure”) Dumbledore pleading for his life either, so think he’s definitely pleading for Snape to Do The Right Thing. The question is, what is the Right Thing?

I can see a valid argument that Snape hasn’t switched sides again, he’s just taking the least destructive way out of an impossible bind. If he doesn’t kill Dumbledore:

  1. Dumbledore still dies, either from poisoning or at the hands of one of the other Death Eaters.

  2. Snape dies (because of the Unbreakable Vow), and also his cover is blown, which means that Voldemort will be looking into his contacts and probably murdering some of them.

  3. Voldemort murders Draco.

Whereas if he does kill Dumbledore, he stays alive, keeps his cover, and has a chance of smuggling Draco to safety.

The trouble is, I’m not sure I actually believe this. From a plotting point of view, it’s a compelling version of events; from a characterization perspective, I think it’s more likely that Dumbledore’s fatal flaw is trust and Snape’s is hatred. Snape, I suspect, has always been serving the right side for the wrong reasons. I have a feeling he defected because he wanted revenge on Voldemort (whose promises are empty and whose treatment of his followers seems calculated to breed resentment), not because he felt the slightest amount of regret for James and Lily. And now, he’s gotten to the point where he resents Dumbledore and the rest of the Order just as much, and sees an opportunity to be revenged on the whole pack of 'em.

Am I the only one that said NO!! when reading the end of The Half Blood Prince ? Why do I like Snape so much… anyone? Why was I so relieved when I read (in the HBP book thread) that he may have had a good reason to do what he did? Why am I dreading finding out that he didn’t have a good reason in book 7? Is it just that I really dig Alan Rickman and can’t believe him to be evil :smiley:

We have yet to discover why Dumble put his faith in him!!

I’m probably fighting a losing battle here, but once again I’d like to appeal to people to abandon the speculation that Snape’s defection from the Death Eaters was in response to Lily’s murder.

In Karkaroff’s stoolie session in Goblet of Fire, Dumbledore tells the Wizengamot that Snape switched sides prior to Voldemort’s downfall. So that means some time after (probably) June, 1980 (when he heard part of Trelawney’s prophecy), but before 10/31/1981 (the catastrophe in Godric’s Hollow).

In Prisoner of Azkaban, Harry overhears Fudge telling Rosemerta that the Potters knew Voldemort was looking for them. It is probably safe to infer that that intelligence had been provided by Snape, via Dumbledore. Once again, this supports Snape’s defection prior to Lily’s murder.

I wonder if Voldemort, upon hearing the partial prophecy, simply told Snape: That’s it. I’m gonna have to kill every wizard baby born this July, just to be safe. That might have been a bit much for even Snape to handle, killing babies. :eek: Or he could have turned upon Voldemort telling him that he intended to kill the Potter’s kid.

I’m still not entirely convinced of the sincerity of Snape’s defection, although I concede that the arguments in favor have been strong. It’s going to be a l-o-o-o-o-o-ng two years.

Isn’t that a circular arguement? :slight_smile: