Snow day staff payment-am I being unreasonable?

In My Humble Opinion
41

I think you’re both unreasonable. It’s unreasonable to be expected to be paid for not doing any work, but it’s also unreasonable to make someone clear their schedule and get up to come in in the morning and then tell them they shouldn’t and not pay them.

Splitting the difference and giving them half a day’s pay seems reasonable. Maybe in the interest of keeping your employees happy pay them the full day and tell them in the future you’ll pay half their normal hours on snow days.

BTW, what do the patients that get their appointments cancelled get?

42

This is the correct answer, even if you feel that they are wrong.

However, I strongly urge you to rewrite your snow policy. I would rewrite the entire policy to simply state, no pay when office is closed.

THEN if you want you can always choose to pay them if you’d like.

43

Paid time off is a normal part of a benefits package for many workers. PTO is essentially “expecting to be paid for not doing any work” since by definition you do not do any work that day but still get paid. In these particular workers’ case their benefits say they have paid time off explicitly on snow days. It is not unreasonable to claim benefits that were promised to begin with.

44

The patients were cancelled for a reason. It appears it was due to the snow storm. Or do you think that was just a coincidence?

It was a snow day. Honor your policy. Pay your employees. One and a half days. Then tell them you are cancelling your snow day policy because you aren’t willing to honor it.

45

How common is it for hourly workers?

46

So… you’re opposed to paid vacations and sick days, then?

It comes down to having a clear policy in place, or at least clear communications. I’ve lived in an area with serious winter all my life where snow days were a possibility every year. Yes, policies vary, but the smart employers stated their policy in advance.

Even if you know the storm is coming there is still a certain lack of precision regarding how bad it will actually be. Which is why communicating in advance for possible different scenarios is in everyone’s best interests. That includes:

  1. Communicating how and when an open/not open decision will be communicated.
  2. Whether or not “snow days” or other closing situations will be paid or not paid
  3. Allowances for individual circumstances, and how employees should communicate those back to the boss

I used to work for a company that, if there was an official (company announced) closing would still pay workers for any hours that they would have normally been at work. This was done to encourage safe decisions and was doable because, first of all, the company had sufficient money to cover such contingencies and second, nothing was so terribly urgent that we were working on that it couldn’t be delayed a day if there was a potential risk to employees.

I’ve worked for clinics where SOMEONE had to be there, and if someone didn’t get to work than someone else would wind up having to stay. Well, the rules around that were delineated, including provisions for food and rest for employees forced to remain past their shift, and overtime pay. Some personnel weren’t critical and could just stay home, but some positions had to be filled.

I currently work for a big box retailer that runs 24/7. When there are big weather events we’re going to have fewer customers anyway, so we can get buy on a skeleton crew. People can either opt to stay at the store, if they can come in great (and they might even pick up over time) but those who stay home are neither paid nor are they penalized for not showing up (normally, if you don’t come in for your shift you are penalized). It’s understood that some people - I have coworkers in their 70’s and 80’s - are simply less physically able to dig themselves out than other staff. Some people have better vehicles. Some, by luck, live on or near streets that get plowed first, some don’t. Keep in mind, we deal with snow closures every year, or nearly so, and there is still some ambiguity involved.

However, as I said, in all cases policies on closures (for whatever reason) are written in advance, how things will be communicated are written down (boss to employee, employee to boss), and payment policies are likewise written down.

In general, it’s considered an asshat choice to demand employees get to work if there is a state of emergency and/or authorities are telling people to stay off the roads, unless you’re a member of the National Guard or some other first responder or emergency personnel. (My sister who lives in Buffalo was working the local ER during a “weather event” - in that case the National Guard drove her to work rather than having her risk taking her much less capable personal vehicle.)

Now, for the OP’s situation, this is my suggestion which psychobunny is free to follow or ignore:

Pay people for the damn day on Monday if you can afford it. If you can’t, then pay them for at least the half day if you can afford it at all. You are, of course, within your rights not to but you’ll risk looking like a dick. It sounds like none of you are accustomed to these sorts of “weather events” and really, you’re better off with your loyal and competent employees opting for safety rather than greed, and long term you’re better off with showing them generosity and goodwill (assuming these are long term employees - if your typical turnover is 3 months this is not as important)

**Whether you pay for Monday or not, sit down and write out a consistent and clear policy regarding office closings.

  • You could make it simple and say “we follow the Feds”, end of policy. You can say “I decide” but then you will need to be clear on how you will communicate this information.

  • You need to be clear on how you will communicate with employees, and how they will communicate with you.

  • You also need to be clear on payment.**

47

It doesn’t matter how common it is because it’s explicitly stated for these workers in particular that they get paid time off on snow days that they would normally be working. So, again, it’s not unreasonable for them to claim a benefit explicitly stated to be theirs.

48

I work for rock bottom retail.

I get an allotment of paid time off for every calendar year. Yes, these are days I schedule and get paid even though I’m not there.

Even the part timers where I work get some after their first year there.

So yeah, pretty common even for folks on the bottom of the economic scale to get SOME paid time off.

As I mentioned up-thread: where I currently work for snow days you aren’t penalized if you can’t make it in although you aren’t paid either, but those who either stay or do make it in do get paid, in some cases overtime if their work hours exceed normal. Policy is stated in writing and reviewed during new worker orientation, it’s not a surprise to anyone when the issue comes up.

49

Let’s see.

The Feds closed on Friday at noon. You also closed on Friday at noon. In fact, you explicity shuffled their scheduled workday around so you could close at noon. It doesn’t matter that they usually knock off on Friday afternoons if there are no patients scheduled, because there were patients scheduled.

The Feds were also closed all day on Monday. You were closed a half-day on Monday. Again you explicity shuffled their workday around so you could close in the morning.

I’d say by your own guidelines you absolutely owe them for the half-day on Friday and a half-day on Monday. The Feds closed AND you closed.

Now, the question comes down to whether you owe them anything for Monday afternoon. After all, the Feds were still closed, not to mention that your employees were snowed in. When they called in Monday morning, what did you tell them? Not to worry about it, or that you were going to try to open the office and they should try to make it in? If you didn’t tell them you were going to open the office, then I think you owe them the afternoon.

And yeah, rewrite your policy.

50

Just to clarify, if the staff goes home early on Friday, they are paid only for the hours they work.
My original policy was no snow day pay but the staff was complaining that they wanted to work and were willing to work but felt penalized because the office was closed. I made the policy to say that if they wanted to come in and do work on a snow day, I would pay them for the hours they worked. Somehow, it got to where they were expected to be paid when the office was closed.

Monday AM, I called the staff and said that I was ready to work but I was unsure of how the roads looked down near the office. Since they live down there, they have a better idea. I was informed that the main streets were clear but not all of the side streets were. My main staff member told me that they were just plowing her complex.

I told them that I thought we should delay for half a day and open at 2:00 after our usual lunch and to reschedule any AM patients but leave the PM patients scheduled. I checked in at about one to tell them I would be there on time and was told that the plow had broken down and my employee couldn’t get out of her complex. She said she had called the other employee who said her complex had not been plowed, although we both wonder if that is true since most places had been plowed by that time.

Most of the patients did not show up because of the snow and because most things were closed, however, I was at the office to see anybody who showed up and to take any calls. Staff members have the ability to access the office computers at home and to do work (ie call patients with results) but they have said that they do not want to do this because they do not want patients with caller ID to have their home or cell numbers and do not want the bother of setting up call blocking).

I guess my frustration is becoming clear. It seems to me that I offered a lot of options;

  1. Find a way to get into the office
  2. Do your work from home
  3. Take it as PTO
    I am willing to pay them for Monday morning when we were closed.
51

BTW, the communication Friday was that I was staying until the work was done but if they wanted to leave early to beat the snow they could. At that time, I said that we would reassess at 7AM Monday morning and depending on the road conditions I would make a decision as to whether we would open on time, delay opening or close. We texted at 7AM as noted.

52

You should have a more clear and explicit policy.

And no where in rules that govern salaried exempt employees vs. hourly non-exempt employees is the employee’s wishes part of the decision. A determination should be made based on the characteristics of the job - the employee either is, or isn’t. They don’t get to choose.

53

To make it clearer, here is our actual written policy:

When the office is closed due to emergency conditions, time off from work will be paid. When the office is not officially closed and the employee elects to leave for personal, safety or other reasons, the time missed will not be paid. However, the employee may elect to use a vacation or sick day.

There is no written policy about when the office will close since that is at my discretion. The general assumption that we go with the Feds is only a guideline because usually they only close if weather is very bad. All staff know that the decision is entirely mine.

As far as being a salaried employee, I offered her a salaried position as office manager and she asked if she could continue as an hourly worker but do the same job.

54

Hmm…

Well, it seems that on Monday morning you told them the office would be closed for the morning (which, in light of your policy as stated, means they should be paid for the morning) and you suggested re-opening for the afternoon, which means no pay if they stay home.

I guess it comes down to whether or not they were physically able to get to the office, and if that would affect your decision on pay.

Well, you’re the boss, it’s your call.

I still suggest putting a clarified policy in writing for the future to minimize future issues.

55

That’s more clear. In this case - you told them to leave on Friday so they got the 1/2 day. You also told them to cancel (essentially that the office was closed, and the Feds were closed) leading them to believe that the office was closed on Monday. Did you tell them the office was actually open? If not, I would pay them the full day on Monday.

56

This helps. Based on this policy, it’s clear to me that the office closed early on Friday due to a snow emergency, and based on your commitment to pay them wages during a snow emergency, you owe them a 1/2 day pay on Friday. Rearranging schedules because of a snow emergency doesn’t give you a good reason to arbitrarily alter this policy to argue that your work finished early. The only reason it finished early is because of the snow emergency.

As for Monday, we all agree that you owe them for Monday morning. By the text of your policy, I’d say there’s a good argument that the afternoon should not be paid unless the employee uses unscheduled leave.

However, I think your standard for judging that the office should be open that afternoon because YOU could make it into work, considering the severity of the storm, is a poor call.

Sounds like you have a grudge that is impacting your judgment, because this has nothing to do with the situation. A wage earning employee is entitled to all protections and benefits of your office policies regardless of what offers you have made them in the past.

57

But the Federal closing was all day right?

Why even mention federal closings if you are going to set aside that determination as soon as some of the roads get better?

ETA: Maybe I am overreacting. Maybe in all/most other categories you are a cool boss/employer. This is afterall only one event and surely being a boss/owner is challenging and stressful.

58

But you sent the staff home on Friday. They were scheduled to work a full day and there were patients scheduled for the afternoon. You were the one who told them to go home.

You closed the office on Friday. It was “official.” It doesn’t matter whether the office might not be open on some other Friday afternoon – it was supposed to be open that day and you closed it because of snow.

This sounds like some sort of Catch-22 where you tell your employees and patients the office is closed, but it’s not really closed because you’re staying, and they have permission to leave, but if they leave you won’t pay them even though the office was closed.

Earlier I was somewhat sympathetic to your position because your policy wasn’t clear. Now that you’ve made it more clear, you clearly owe them for Friday.

I have a question. You said most of the patients scheduled for Monday didn’t show up because of the snow. Did those patients all cancel within the required time period before their appointments? Are you planning to charge those who didn’t cancel in advance?

59

The policy is not well thought through. In general, an office can have four statuses:

A: Office is open, people are working as scheduled
B: Office is operating at reduced staffing, people called in are working and those that are not are not.
C: Office is closed, people are working remotely.
D: Office is closed, nobody is working.

What you’ve done is created a fifth status where the office is closed and people are kind of teleworking but not really in a systematic way. This fifth status isn’t really distinct from the states that people understand, and it’s become a situation where you are just kind of arbitrarily deciding to pay people or not, even in identical conditions. That’s bound to end up in resentment, likely from all sides.

There is no reason to have this ambiguous fifth status. Stick to the four statuses that people understand. If you feel like they are getting the short end of the stick by missing the occasional snow day that they used to get, offer a little extra PTO or let them work remotely on an “on call” status.

60

If it were my office I’d pay them for Friday and Monday and I’d cancel the snow day pay policy, clearly it’s just causing confusion.

In the future if you don’t want them to suffer due to lost hours on snow days you can always choose to pay them at your own discretion even if no policy for doing so exists.