…nope, just as I stated I haven’t read Mein Kampf. Never claimed to have read it, but I’m well aware of its status in academia. Its why it was used as an example. I invoked Mein Kampf for a reason. Because it seems as if you aren’t aware of the criticisms of the Bell Curve, so I used an appropriate analogue.
We aren’t talking about how to view people in history. We’re talking about whether a “smart” person can disqualify emself from a job now by saying something racist. It was proposed that by doing so, we are depriving ourselves of the unique expertise of someone just because that someone happens to have said something racist. My point is that no, we aren’t depriving ourselves, because there will be plenty of other people just as qualified to take their places at, say, a seminar or conference. And some of those other people might be non-male or non-white people who are overlooked for such invitations today because of the preferred status of white male experts for such roles.
You were in the other thread and know damn well that ‘being kind’ is not what anyone is objecting to. It’s people being harmed by changes to the law and the social enforcement of ideology.
It’s not all about toilets. Come to the JK Rowling thread if you are interested in discussing the real issues.
You invoke Mein Kampf to distract from the glaring problem that you haven’t read The Bell Curve and are regurgitating things you’ve heard others say about it. You have meta-knowledge of The Bell Curve but you dismiss it with such authoritative knowledge of the subject. Tell me, what are some of the “good points” to which Harris refers when he talks about the book. I confess that I actually don’t know what he has said on the subject. It’s okay if you don’t know either. Maybe we should both go find out.
I’ve read Mein Kampf, btw.
M grows up to choose a female gender identity, eh? Think about what you’re saying (without seemingly being aware that you’re saying it).
Why is M entitled to use the women’s restroom based on what you’re referring to as a choice? Female human beings don’t choose to have the bodies they do. They don’t choose to bleed periodically or have urinary incontinence as a result of pregnancies that have wrecked their pelvic floors and given them over reactive bladders. Did you know these conditions are a big reason why lines for the ladies room will always be longer at halftime than it is for men? Perhaps you do know, but you believe it doesn’t matter.
In your opinion, is M and other transwomen entitled to claim space in the ladies room regardless of the position it puts women and girls in? They should just suck it up and not complain about enduring even longer wait times, as they squeeze their legs shut to keep from soiling themselves? Never mind the safety concerns that come with allowing any male the right to identify into female space. Do yall really think there is any such thing as a free lunch here? Because there isn’t. For every trans inclusive demand that abuts with sex-based rights and protections, women are being forced to give up something that is already in short supply as it is. How is this fair?
I think we can agree that we don’t need to turn this thread into a rehash of that one: the toxic transphobia that so thoroughly permeates that thread is best kept over in that thread.
…I never claimed that “being kind” was what anyone in that other thread objected too.
You asked the question
I answered that question. That wasn’t “emotional manipulation intended to shut down debate.” I gave you an answer to your question, a mere opinion in a forum called In My Humble Opinion, nothing more than that.
This has nothing to do with my original comment.
Your identity isn’t being threatened any more than marriages were being threatened by same sex marriage.
…not at all. My intention wasn’t to distract. It was to provide an analogue.
You misunderstand. I didn’t use it as an example. Somebody else did. It was used to set a benchmark.
Feel free to find out. And while you are at it:
Did it make any good points?
Who would you invite to speak at a conference about mapping the human genome? Would you invite Francis Collins and James Watson, or would you invite some lesser well known scientist who are not white, not male, not observant Catholic who believes the universe is created by an intelligent designer, and didn’t say some pretty wrong things about racial traits?
Would you dismiss Francis Collins’ and James Watson’s contributions to the sciences? Deny them further recognition?
I think I will. I take it you’re okay with what you think you already know.
It provided some disturbing insight into the evil mind that had such a profound impact in human history.
Not everything worth knowing is comfortable or right.
…did it make any good points?
I haven’t made an argument against gaining knowledge.
Well, if you’re worried about long lines, I can assure you that M will be quicker in the can than natural ladies, since M won’t have menses or pregnancy complications to deal with, and every transman who uses the men’s room will bring those problems there instead.
And since we’re assuming M is a transwoman, I’m not suggesting allowing any males into a female space. I am however, very interested in protecting women from men who would sneak into a bathroom for the purpose of assaulting them. I don’t believe that has anything to do with respecting transwomen.
You’ve made a point of dismissing something you don’t know.
Tell that to female athletes who are losing to male athletes who have identified their way into women’s sports.
Tell that to women who have cancer cells growing in their crevixes right now but won’t know this until too late because health information is too cryptic for those with minimal health literacy.
Tell that to women who won’t be able to win lawsuits for sex-based discrimination in the workplace because their employer can point to plenty of successful “women“ to counter their claim of unfair treatment. Never mind if these “women” have beards and flow in and out of their gender identity depending on the season. Female = anyone who identifies as one, right?
…did Mein Kampf, which you have read btw, make any good points?
And I haven’t made a point of “dismissing something I don’t know.” I haven’t read it, but I know enough about it. I’m allowed to have an opinion about someone who argues that it “makes good points.”
The women’s groups trying to meet to discuss the issue were subjected to constant harassment and attempts to prevent them gathering. I feel more and more thankful that our papers are not all too indoctrinated or cowed to publish dissenting views occasionally, but I haven’t forgotten that you called them transphobic for it.
Yeah, you answered a question that wasn’t directed at you with an obviously misleading answer. Good going.
WTF do you imagine you’ll bait me into saying? That Hitler had some good points when he orchestrated his genocidal agenda that resulted in the murder of millions that included a grandfather I would never know and a half dozen great aunts and uncles?
…so are you changing your argument now?
Can you let me know when you’ve settled on a position so that I can address if fairly?
They are being transphobic. Blatantly, disgustingly, transphobic. Transphobic to the point of harassment, both in response to what they post and to how they treated their transgender employees behind the scenes. I’m glad you bought that up.
Well, yeah, that’s what happens when we are just ordinary people exploring issues and expressing our opinions in a forum dedicated to that very thing. You don’t get to control who answers your questions. There was nothing misleading in my answer. And even if you thought it was misleading, I came back to the thread to clarify with a pretty comprehensive rebuttal. “Be Kind” does not mean “Shut Up.” End of story.