I was thinking of GFCI circuits because I just don’t have that much going on in my life.
As I understand it, a ground fault interrupter senses the current going out, decides if the same is coming back, and if it isn’t right says “Uh Oh, some amount of current is finding a different path to ground, possibly through Lare,” and trips the circuit.
If this is accurate, I should be able to toss a space heater, toaster, radio, or whatever device is plugged into a GFI outlet into a full bathtub with impunity.
Besides being a bad idea on general principles, why would it be dangerous to do so?
It’s a serious question, because I want my ignorance fought. But it’s really of no consequence because it’s merely something that I was just wondering about with no intention of trying.
The actual electricians will be chiming in soon, but in the mean time, I think that you would have to consider the reaction time. The circuit doesn’t see that some current is about to go through Lare, it sees that some current is going Lare right now. Whatever fraction of a second that is, if there is enough current it could still be a less than ideal day for you.
What you are describing is originally why they first started requiring GFCIs in the bathroom.
Darren is correct. Go to your GFCI and press the test button. That button creates a fault very similar to the fault the GFCI is meant to detect. There’s a resistor inside the GFCI and that pushbutton connects that resistor into the circuit, creating a current imbalance the circuitry can detect.
Notice how it takes a moment to happen? You will still feel a momentary shock if you’re toaster bathing. It’s supposed to turn the power off quick enough that your heart doesn’t stop but this is not guaranteed. Also, electric shocks can do permanent damage to your nervous system, especially if the electricity takes a path through your brain or spine.
Also, if the bathtub is plastic and the plumbing is pex, it’s actually very possible that nothing will happen. If the bathtub is isolated, it will now be partially energized with the potential from the circuit but there’s nowhere for it to go. (and you might then be the bridge that completes the circuit if you are touching something grounded when you climb into the tub)
I’m not an electrician, but I deal with engineering of electrical circuits on a daily basis and also recently sat through the ‘low’ voltage safety class at my employer. (under 600 volts is ‘low’)
Whoa. This is the same thing as asking, “How close can I get to the edge of the cliff before it crumbles and I fall?” When I’m working above 6’ off the ground at a customer location, I have to wear a shock-absorbing lanyard and full-body harness. That doesn’t mean that I jump off my ladder when I want to get down to the ground. A GFCI is additional protection, not a substitute for safe practices. Will it protect you most of the time? Sure. All of the time? Why take a chance? I’ve seen technicians literally knocked off a ladder when ringing voltage came through a phone line, simply because it surprised them and they released their hold.
I think the better analogy is wearing a bullet-proof vest and asking someone to shoot you … sure, you won’t die, but you’ll be spending a good long time in the hospital …
You also risk taking current in from the toaster AND returning that current back to the toaster in full, the GFCI may not trip before the circuit breaker does …
Inevitably when I’m working on my phone lines, a neighbor or three will call me to warn me about ringer voltage … good Samaritans my ass …
Oh. I was just expecting this to be about having a space heater in there with you. I do that all the time, since my house’s central heat doesn’t work. I suggest putting it on the floor, well away from the actual tub, so that the hot air will rise. Also, if you have the water, you can let it run for a bit on a bit warmer than lukewarm to get the humidity up, which helps keep in heat.
The number of deaths is quite low since introducing this sort of thing, with the deaths reported usually involving doing something to circumvent protections. But, yeah, it’s not worth trying. Even a small shock can stop your heart if it’s in the right place at the right time.
A space heater will not work well for taking a bath. About all it might do is bake the dirt and grime onto your skin. That’s why people use bathtubs, you can fill them with water which works much better at cleaning than heat does. Now if you were only thinking of soaking in a hot tub of water to relax then possibly the space heater will work like dry heat in a sauna does.
C’mon really? Did you read that and think it was serious?
I see what you did there, and if I hadn’t found it by replying with a quote I would have made some comment about how you missed the cleansing and sanitizing effects of high heat.
I appreciate the answers and agree that it would be a bad thing for my delicate internals to shunt part of the local power company product through them as Darren Garrison describes.
There’s a reason that the SawStop is demonstrated with a hot dog instead of someone’s finger, although the inventor actually did it with his finger (around 4:00 in).
Probably something on the order of Oshitohshitohshitoshit. If I were in that situation I don’t think I’d be able to reassess future life choices, as limited as they are.
As an industrial electrician, one of our cardinal rules was to never trust electronics to do their job. Failure is an option. You want to bet your life on that?
i imagined people’s faces from the office telling him not to do that and then maybe who he was going to sue for that ‘faulty window installation’ if he lived mixed in with the oshitoshitoshit’s all kinda playing thru his head rapid fire.
to the OP, it’s worth noting that if it were an older GFCI that it would be possible to have it wired incorrectly leaving that outlet with no protection at all. they would still trip if you “checked it” with the button on the front but they wouldn’t kill power to that outlet.
the newer ones won’t allow for that to happen.
either way, it’d be one of the dumber things you could find to do. and just because it works X times doesn’t mean X+1 wouldn’t be your last show (as pointed out can happen in the link by desert dog).
having been warned, if you choose to do it, remember ‘pics (or video), or it didn’t happen’.
The GFCI must trip in less than 25 ms for a 500 Ω fault (peak current of 339 mA for 120 VAC). A couple things on this:
Though 25 thousandths of a second sounds like a short time, is it possible to get electrocuted on 120 VAC in less than 25 ms? I don’t know, but it would not surprise me if electrocution could occur in under 25 ms for certain scenarios.
Even though it may not be lethal, the GFCI “allows” you to get shocked at lower currents.
