So does the board skew left?

Regarding media outlets, some may be owned by conservatives but they are populated by executives and editors and reporters who are liberal to their very bones. I would imagine anyone wanting to start a network peopled by well-schooled and competent editorial and reporting staff would have its hands full trying to come up with enough conservatives to fill the necessary jobs.

But mainly, the CEOs and stockholders are interested primarily in earning a profit and competing successfully against their rivals, and as long as they are so engaged the political leaning of their companies is probably not of that great an importance.

Regarding Hollywood, several factors come to mind: One, Hollywood is an artistic entity, and for a variety of reasons artists are almost always in conflict with the establishment, i.e., conservatives.

Further, many of the more successful members of Hollywood are excruciatingly wealthy and insulated from the day-to-day struggles of middle-class life. They have more money than they’ll ever spend and they know they’re taken care of, so its easy to look around at homeless people and those on welfare, and at the things and programs they would like to see take place, and decide that the solution is to raise taxes and throw money at the problem. They see nice middle-class homes with two and three cars in the drive, and decide that those people can well afford to give up some of their income to fund their pet causes.

What they don’t see is how hard those middle-class people have to work to earn the lifestyle they’ve managed to acheive. Unlike many Hollywood zillionaires, these people worked hard all through high school and college to get degrees so they could find good jobs. They put in long hours, suffer many indignities at the hands of their superiors, and come home to houses and families that require planning and saving to ensure their future.

Both spouses work in many of these families and they are working as hard and fast as they can to acheive what they have, and they don’t feel they are being selfish in wanting to keep at least half of what they earn – which is what they’re lucky to be left with after state, federal, medicare and medicaid, and social security deductions are taken.

Yet time after time, these spoiled, insulated, ultra-rich Hollywood millionaires – who work two and three months at a time and live lives most corporate CEOs would envy, haughtily declare that we (the middle-class) are “doing enough” to combat the injusitices that exist in society, and demand that more taxes are the answer. Warren Beatty was saying this very thing just a couple of days ago: “I’ve been rich and famous for forty-six years and I don’t care if they raise my taxes!”

Well, duh? If I was worth 300 million dollars (or whatever it is) and my home was paid for and I had no worries about my children’s health care and college education, and I had more money than I’d ever spend anyway, I wouldn’t care if my taxes were raised either.

There is also a strong sense of moral superiority among the Hollywood crowd that makes them think they are above everyone else and therefore they know better than everyone else what should be done, when in actuality they are so far removed from the type of existence most people live that they actually know very little.

(I would expound further, and I’m sure there will be rebuttals to what I’ve said, but hopefully this will explain at least to a certain degree why the dichotomy you see exists.)

Speaking as someone who frequents an alternative medicine-type forum on another board, and who is distinctly in the minority there when it comes to espousing science-based solutions, I am all too familiar with ad hominem attacks and irrelevancies from a ranting, often clueless majority.

Sometimes it’s worthwhile even in the face of unfriendly fire to stick up for truth, justice and the American Way towards the goal of influencing a few of your fellow citizens.

The pendulum will probably swing back some towards expression of more conservative views here once Bush is gone, and his Administration is no longer alienating so many centrist and slightly right of center posters.

Glory, glory hallelujah. :smiley:

I see.

So all wealthy people are for, or at least not against, raising taxes?

Why did the Bush tax cuts, then, bother cutting taxes for the wealthy, then? Why not skip 'em if they’re all so nonchalant about it?

There are some that purport to be over in the Delphi Forums, but most of them have been hijacked by the libs lately.

I see what you’re saying. The problem is that the devil is in the details. Say we make a general rule about not posting on the same topic most of the time. Do we warn the guy who starts one anti-Bush thread every week but not the guy who starts five anti-Bush threads every week since he also starts 15 Cafe Society threads? Do we have exceptions when catastrophic events happen, ala 9/11? Do we ban someone who mentions her recent divorce too often?

The mods have never tried to dictate what gets talked about here (with a few special exceptions), only how people talk to each other. And I really don’t think we should start. I honestly think this is in the hands of the Board as a whole – you guys do have the power to shape discussions and encourage each other to change your behavior.

Okay I’d say I’m a liberal and I’d say the board is “left-leaning”. Still, I do have what some people would consider conservative viewpoints. (Example: I’m pro-death penalty. Whenever I’ve joined a death penalty discussion I have been in the minority, and the arguments were “heated”, but I never got “piled on” or insulted.)

If being a “Dubya” basher is considered liberal then I’ll admit to (on some occassions :smiley: ) making some unkind remarks concerning the present Commander In Chief. And I think I have started a few :smiley: “Bush-Bashing” threads.
To tell you the truth (and I don’t speak for everyone) the reason I have displayed such contempt for Bush, Cheney, and similar conservative types is that they are full of shit. (Yes, here it is for the 1,000th time). Hmmmmmmmmmm Gore called Cheney a coward in his “shrill” attack upon the nation’s VP? Let’s see, if nothing else, Al Gore actually set foot in Vietnam. Cheney had “other priorites”. Well Gore’s “cowardice” is so obvious. :rolleyes:
John Kerry went to Vietnam, Dubya went to the Texas Nationl Guard. Sounds just like another Democratic trick to me. :rolleyes:

Currently I have a Charlie Daniels “bashing” thread going on right here in the Pit. Hmm Mr Daniels believes “Evolution is a big lie” and that God created everything. Nice to see the scientific thought and research that went into his conclusion. Also, Mr Daniels is also a staunch supporter of Dubya. Needless to say, you know what you’ll find in Charlie Daniels’ service record? Nothing - though he’s “Still In Saigon” (in his mind).

So that’s what sticks in my craw, gets my dander up, [insert another clicle here]. I can’t believe the majority of Americans falling for these “full of shit” conservative types. (And there are plenty of others).

So, that’s why I get a little steamed when Dubya says NOOK-YOU-LAR (I know Carter said it too). He’s attempting to sound like and be like a good ole boy even though he’s richer than most of us will ever be and he sure as Hell won’t be inviting any of the common folk to parties on his ranch. And how about his strutting on the aircraft carrier during that “Mission Accomplished” farce? Just as he pretends to be a good ole boy he pretends to be a war hero too.

Bottom Line ? Full of shit.

I have to agree on this. **DtC ** and Bricker were the main reasons I signed up. They both can be very intelligent and bring valid perspectives on any argument, yet they both can be shrill at times. But a lot of us can be both, to think otherwise is asking too much of human nature. We all have our buttons that get pushed from time to time.

The thread after thread of pissing contests of who is the better liberal/conservative, which party is in the majority on the SDMB, and who is a bigger asshole (all of which spawned from manhattan’s departure), is quite exhausting. Resentment seems to have been building since about a year ago with the election, I was waiting for it all to blow up again. But on the bright side, this has been a very entertaining day around here. But DAMN YOU for distracting me from my work!! :wink:

I have noticed as well that GeeDubya’s Texas accent is a wondrously flexible thing. Seems to me, when I listen to his speeches, that he starts out talking with a Midland/Odessa accent, then gradually shades into a Kennebunkport cowboy. Of course, the nuances are masked by the noises of my teeth grinding…

But there can be another explanation. I am a recovering Texan living amonst the lutefiskers, and have adapted accordingly. I have no detectable accent as a general rule, but if I’m on the phone talking to someone down home…well, its a whole different story.

That said, I’ve little doubt that GeeDubya is occassionally coached to put forward his “good ol’ boy” tonality. It just that I doubt very much he skilled enough to make any real use of the advice.

No, we do NOT have any power whatsoever! The same posters have been pitted many, many times about their behaviour with the result of…um…no change whatsoever. Do you really think that if we just pit them a few more times it’s gonna change anything? That’s the whole point the op was trying to make. If you’re a Moderator, then he (and I for that matter) believe that you should not just moderate a poster if they call someone a whorebag or whatever but their on-board behaviour as well. Again, being a one-trick pony and being ONLY a one-trick pony is, when all is said and done, detrimnetal to the board and you’ll see even MORE people leave without renewing membership. I know the Reader could care less what someon here on the board’s political leanings are but they SHOULD give a damn that some people, who are not being properly reined in, are causing the board to actually LOSE paying members.

Damn…yet another extremely long sentence…sorry bout that.

Yeah, and a lot of us agree with you. No secret that I do. I hate the man passionately. But what separates you from the assholes is that you don’t engage in the mean-spirited attempts to shut down discussion that they do.

And don’t hijack. I didn’t start this thread as a place to discuss the merits of politicians. You’re edging perilously close to rjung’s eternal defense: but I haaave to be a jerk because Bush is just so baaaaad!

Well, OK. I wasn’t suggesting, actually that you were making this accusation in particular, but I thought it was being heavily implied…shall we say, elsewhere. You’re right, though, it’s a potentially thermonuclear tangent in the right hands, and best not to go there.

I would be curious as to a practical suggestion as to just what you would like to see us do. Does someone want to volunteer to keep track of the number of pointless drive-by posts for each poster? (Can anyone define a pointless drive-by in a fashion that everyone will agree to?) How many posters, here, have been reporting posts that they think violate current rules? I see a certain number of reports a week. Several contributors to this thread who have complained about Moderation do not stand out as posters from whom I have received reports. OTOH, I do find it amusing when reports cancel each other out, with two snarkers each complaining that the “other” poster is being mean. When I see a violation, as opposed to mere umbrage, I step in as a Moderator. When I see someone trying to use me as a club because they just don’t like what their opponent said, I am less likely to intervene. I have also done some pre-emptive interventions in escalating situations, asking people to back off before they have violated actual rules. For that effort, I have been chastised, both privately and in the Pit for being intrusive. (I’m not going to change my practices without a clear declaration from the TM that I am messing up, but it does strike me as ironic when I am (we Mods are) criticized both for acting and failing to act on the same points.)

From my perspective, the board population does tend to tilt left, but the hostility tends to be a matter of whose ox has been gored.

Most of the hostile hijacks occur with the complete cooperation of posters from both sides. As a poster, when I encounter something egregiously wrong I may comment on it, but in the middle of a general mêlée with some really stupid posts being posted on both sides, I tend to respond only to those posts that are either substantive or in need of specific factual correction. I do not find it that difficult to ignore the chaff and chatter and I’m always surprised at the people who simply must respond to truly silly comments.

So, let’s see the specific new rules that we need to implement to “clean up” the board. These rules should be acceptable to a strong majority of posters of all political and religious leanings and they should be enforceable without requiring the hiring of secretaries to track each poster’s output, qualitatively measured for appropriateness.

(As a purely personal side note, I find the accusation that the Mods are, somehow, “supporting” the Left over the Right bemusing. I cannot recall any Mod discussion that even addressed a poster’s political leanings. As a clear and recent example, there were numerous cries that milroyj’s banning was “targeted” at Right-wing posters, ignoring completely the fact that Brutus (who was similar to milroyj in his political stance and in his penchant for drive-by swipes) was not accumulating similar hostile attention from the Mods. milroyj was banned for persistent attacks on other posters–it was nearly the only sort of post he contributed–and his politics were no part of the discussion to ban him. Brutus, on the other hand, generally addressed the politics of the issue and was not in any danger of censure.)

Yeah, we shouldn’t forget all those other fantastic epistemologies, like “going with your feelings”, “guessing” “making stuff up”, and my personal favorite, “believing X causes my brain to release endorphins”. :rolleyes:

Starving Artist - you know my question was asked tongue in cheek, and to an extent, I do agree with you. People with money up the wazoo always harp on that money isn’t important or the issue. Well, d’oh. That’s easy to say if money’s never gonna be a problem for you. For most of us, money is important.

But I think your answer is too easy. GWB is a Yale educated, former Delta Kappa Phi president and millionaire’s son to boot. Yet, he can, with a straight face, be seen as opposed to the elite, who own, write and buy / view / hear the liberal media. Had he been a Texas Democrat, with the exact same baqckground, the Coulters and Limbaughs would have been screaming bloody murder about how the Bush family was trying to install a monarchy in the US, how he was part of the (liberal) elite, out of touch with Joe Average.

In the second to last issue of the Atlantic, there was a very interesting article about conservative talk radio, which touches on this issue (I don’t think it’s available for free online), which basically says that the elite/traditional media is perceived as liberal, mostly because the liberals/democrats seem to be quite happy with them - but not because the liberals think of NYT, Newsweek or CNN* as liberal.

I think it’s all part of a larger issue, and I think it’s the reason that GWB won the election, in spite of everything. Had he walked squeeky clean through the past four years (no 9/11, and thus no Iraq), he would’ve gotten well past 60% of the votes. Something is changing in America, and I don’t know what, but maybe that’s more suited for GD.
*Is CNN considered liberal because Ted Turner hooked up with Jane Fonda? Wasn’t he chummy with Jerry Falwell in the early 80’s?

Oh please go fuck yourself. That is the second time that has been brought up. Between the left’s asshole brigade I don’t think you could find a single person who got better than a C+ in Econ 101. The best you can come up with is some guy whose intellectual qualifications come from making bad Britney Spears slavegirl porn. You may continue to believe that those of us who even tend to the right on some issues are either lying or stupid. If you choose that path you will soon be engaging in your mental masturbation with each other.

In the end this is exactly the intolerance that will drive every reasoning dissenter away. If you believe yourself to be in possesion of the ‘truth’ through your vast reasoning skills and staggering life experience, then what use is discussion in the first place. I don’t post in political threads because the shrill voices of the idiot wing of the left have taken over those discussions. I rarely post anymore and I am already regretting renewing solely because of the posters mentioned in this thread.

I really couldn’t care less which way the board skews. Intelligent reasoned debate can be held with people of most any viewpoint. The problem is that people with opinons other than those of the idiot brigade get driven off. You can’t honestly believe it’s coincidence that we have no fundamentalist Christian posters to speak of, a small handful of conservatives (shrinking fast) and about two people who oppose gay marriage. Those people are driven off this board with a cattle prod in their ass. I think this place would be far richer if it were more accomodating to differing viewpoints.

Umm… not to change the subject or anything… but who might this be referring to, exactly?

And where can we find examples of his work?

Purely for academic purposes, of course.

[bolding mine]

Oh please, dahling…exactly where did I say that?

I believe my point was that wealthy Hollywood people, who come by their wealth relatively easily and who work both less hard and fewer hours than most people, tend to be much more in favor of raising taxes on not only themselves, but the rest of us, as well.

Yuh. Can we please put away the whole “no new taxes” thing? There has yet to be an administration, regardless of their party affiliation, that did not raise or create new taxes which one part of the population or another ended up paying.

Not true. None of them have ever slapped me around for insufficient zeal and I am, at my leftest, a “moderate” Democrat. You Republicans are simply making up stories that support your position, one which is based more in a paranoid fantasy than reality.