So, everyone hates Lefty?

The Game Room
21

Again, I’ve never met Lefty or Vijay, and have no idea at all what either is really like.

I know only that

  1. Fans generally like Phil, who goes out of his way to be accommodating and friendly to fans, but that his colleagues widely consider him a phony.

  2. Fans are generally indifferent to Vijay Singh, because he acts completely indifferent to them, but that his colleagues widely consider him a wonderful person.

All I’m saying is, it’s silly to expect fans to judge celebrities by “true” personalities they choose never to reveal. Fans can only make superficial judgments. That means they’re BOUND to like a celeb who smiles and signs autographs more than a celeb who barely acknowledges their existence, even if the latter celeb is secretly much nicer.

It’s entirely possible that, one on one, Vijay Singh is a very kind, charming and funny guy. That means NOTHING to the fan who’s never going to meet Vijay one on one, just as it means NOTHING to me that a diffident, brusque waitress spends hours of her spare time doing charity work.

For whatever reason, Phil Mickelson wants very much to be liked by the public, and works hard to win them over. Vijay Singh doesn’t seem to care whether the fans like him, and makes almost no effort to win them over.

That’s Vijay’s choice. He has no obligation to act like Mr. Vivacious, if that’s just not in his nature. But his friends in the clubhouse should acknowledge that Vijay is getting exaclty what he deserves from the fans.

22

Has anyone said anything differently here? Has anyone complained about how Vijay is treated?

So far as I can tell, no one is complaining because Mickelson is a fan fave. Fellow pros simply consider the fact of his fan fave status evidence that he’s phony, since they see another side to him that they believe, if it was shown to the public, would make him much less the fave. But I don’t see anyone in this thread saying, “That Phil, boy I get so mad that the fans like him!”

23

Sorry, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. Vijay isn’t particularly disliked by fans on tour, he just doesn’t generate a great deal of excitement when you watch him on TV. To say he doesn’t make an effort to reach out to his fans is ignorant.

24

Well, counselor, I believe you must be using the words “evidence” and “proof” in the loosest of all possible manners?

The smiley was in response to the general, unattributed nature of the purported “evidence.” “One time I heard a guy - whose identity I won’t disclose - say XYZ” is in no way “proof” of XYZ. If I cared to, I could create exactly as strong a case for the other side saying, “Oh yeah? well I heard a guy - whose identity I won’t disclose - say ABC!” Or I could make a STRONGER case by saying I had heard TWO guys…

LD, you say I know several people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil since he was in high school. None of them have anything good to say about him. It isn’t just players and it isn’t jealousy. I don’t expect you to “name names,” but certainly you can understand my hesitance to accept such anonymous info on a MB as determinative, can’t you? I hope you do not equate my position as accusing you of intentionally lying, because I’m not.

And LM offers: “another article saying the same things.” Hell, that’s not “another article.” It has no content independent of the GQ article!

Should it be so hard for someone to provide a specific incident in which Lefty acted particularly dickishly? I guess I’m a pretty cynical guy, but it always makes me suspect accusations when they are long on generalities, and absolutely lacking in any documentable specifics.

Regarding bible-thumpers - Zach Johnson and Aaron Baddeley come immediately to mind. And it is not at all unusual for Johnny Miller (the Mor[m]on) to mention on telecasts that a particular player is “a very spiritual young man.” I’ve read in the past about golfers’ Bible groups, but they may well be notable in their rarity.

Back to the subject of dislike for Lefty: yesterday I was playing with one of the better golfers I know. He said a couple of years ago when the tour was in town he was hanging out with several of the caddies at the hotel where they were staying. He said their unanimous conclusion was that Phil was one of the most arrogant guys on tour - at least in terms of his relations towards other caddies. Said he had nothing to do with or say to any of them, which was extreme - tho by no means unique - for his peers.

In my experience with other industries, truly successful people seem to have little difficulty attracting "friends’, no matter how lacking their personality may impress me in on respect or another. My suspicion is that - as DSY says I’m sure that the reported dislike of Lefty is greater than the actual level of dislike.

25

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were issuing a challenge. I thought you were looking for information. And I am not talking about “a guy who knows a guy”, I am talking first hand information. Your post was not about whether or not Mickelson is an ass, it was about what other players think about him. I am telling you that I have multiple first-hand accounts from players, as well as other people professionally associated with him.

When I hear a player say he doesn’t like PM, that is most certainly proof that that player doesn’t like PM. How that fact escapes you is beyond me.

No you couldn’t. You don’t have first hand knowledge of player opinion.

It isn’t. it is very rarely reported that Phil is unliked.

26

A challenge? I dunno that I ever considered it in such terms. My OP stated simply that I have regularly requested, but never been provided, any credible/reliable evidence of the claim.

You now say:

Now in my book, you are getting closer - tho still somewhat short of - the type of evidence I desired. If ou look back to your 1st post, you simply stated:

So now you say you have personally reveived such info from players. Thanks. That is - in my mind - closer to reliable info that simply attributing your opinions to “people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil.” Perhaps I am being overly pedantic, but anyone who has attended a couple of PGA events could be described as having “been around golf, the PGA, and Phil.”

Please realize the nature of this discussion, and please understand that I intend no insult. But until an anonymous poster provides SOME detail, I have little reason to accept their claims as reliable. I’m simply stating that I do not know whether you are Tiger Woods, or some 15-year old. And absent any credible detail, I could just as easily express a flat-out lie to the contrary - and I submit our contradictory statements would be of exactly equal probative value to any third party.

I still don’t see why it should be so impossible to provide a single representative example of his actions/behaviors/attitudes/statements that would support a general dislike. And if he IS a dick IRL, he sure is one hell of an actor, because to this relatively serious fan, he sure comes across as one of the most personable and friendly guys on tour.

27

Which is why I said “It isn’t just players”, indicating that some of them were.

If you can’t see why people aren’t willing to come forward and badmouth a fellow golfer, then I can’t help you. When was the last time you heard anyone say something bad about another player on tour? It happens, but very mildly and very rarely. If I give you any kind of specifics, any one of the people in question will be immediately recognized by someone in the know. That is even more true of people who aren’t players, since the PGA community is pretty darn small.

It isn’t hard to put on a good face for the cameras. If it were, then half the celebrities in the world would be exposed fairly quickly. You don’t need to be a good actor to say “Hey buddy” and sign an autograph.

In short, I don’t care if you believe me at this point. If you want to think there is smoke without a fire, that’s fine. I won’t lose a wink of sleep if someone thinks Phil is an absolute ace.

28

I have heard that Vijay is still thought of as a cheater for an incident over 20 years ago. Remarks like “once a cheater ,always a cheater”. come to mind. Seems he always has been an outsider .

29

That is false. It was written in reference to the GQ article and it quotes it, but the writer offers his own experiences that corroborate the GQ article.

As for unnamed sources, how about Steve Williams, Tiger’s caddy?

“…I hate the prick.”

As for Vijay Singh, all you have to do is listen to the TV commentators. They often say how well liked he is by tour players and officials.

30

He has always been somewhat of a loner, but he is well-liked on the tour. I’ve heard that at least one golfer thinks of him as a cheater, but I don’t think that’s a commonly held attitude.

31

Thanks, all.

I guess I’ll have to accept that at least several pro golfers have expressed a dislike for Mick, but are unwilling to identify any specific reason for their dislike.

As far as Steve Williams’ opinion, well if we are talking about people who appear to be assholes … :wink:

32

You’ve been given specific reasons, you just want names and anecdotes to go along with them.

33

Gosh, I really out not prolong this, but would you please point out the “specific examples”?

All I see are the likes of these:

*“None of them have anything good to say about him.”

“When I hear a player say he doesn’t like PM”

“Fellow pros simply consider the fact of his fan fave status evidence that he’s phony, since they see another side to him that they believe, if it was shown to the public, would make him much less the fave.”

“But his peers do not. That’s long been known to media members who cover golf, and to fans who are connoisseurs of PGA Tour gossip. Mickelson battles Sergio Garcia, among others, when it comes to the title of Tour player least-liked by other golfers.”

Phil Mickelson literally has no friends out there. He annoys everybody."

“Mickelson has earned many nicknames on the Tour, but our favorite is FIGJAM … ‘There are a bunch of pros who think he and his whole smiley, happy face are a fraud,’ another reporter says. ‘They think he’s preening and insincere.’”*

And SW thinks he is a prick, and relates an incident when he was heckled.

You don’t think those statements lean more towards the general than the specific?

34

Try to keep track of the things you say. You said reasons, not examples.

There are several reasons listed throughout this thread and the linked articles.

35

Okay, now you are being a dick. Please show me where the word “reasons” appears in any of my posts in this thread?

My OP requested any credible/reliable evidence of the claim [that PM is] generally considered to be a jerk by his peers.

All right, I’ll acknowledge that your general allegations may satisfy that. But in the concluding parenthetical to my OP I addressed the example/situation/whatever of tipping.

And in post # 3 I acknowledged the existence of quotes attributed to a couple of un-named golfers and journalists. But I explained that the situations they describe seem no more significant than could easily be attributed to so many other golfers. And then I proceeded to list a few specific examples of what I considered criticizeable behavior.

So please do not rephrase my statements to satisfy whatever your purposes may be. I readily accept your general statements for what they are.

36

Gee, that should be difficult.

From post #31:

37

Not sure why my search didn’t turn up that usage in #31. So I retract my claim that I did not use the word “reason” in any of my posts. I should have observed that the word “reason” did not appear in my first 6 posts.

Now, offering extra credit for reading in context, what portion of post #31 constitutes my asking for specific reasons - especially when read in context with my preceeding 6 posts?

I do not wish to continue any pissing match with you or anyone else. And if nothing else this discussion clearly showed me how little I really care about this issue.

So feel free to put in the last word should you wish. The sun is shining, and I oughta be on a golf course (where I provide my fellow golfers AMPLE reasons for thinking me an asshole!) :stuck_out_tongue:

38

I really wasn’t trying to sneak the last word in, I just thought you were under the impression that the golfers in question weren’t giving any reasons why they don’t care for Phil. You are right that they won’t give specifics, and I doubt you’ll really ever get any. There is the possibility that you’ll begin to read things in books that are published at or near the end of his career, but there is nothing to be gained from such accusations at this point.

On top of that, he is still good for golf in a lot of ways, and the PGA certainly doesn’t want people to think badly of him. On the whole, I don’t think people actually hate him as much as they think he’s just a jerk. Some resent him b/c his public image is totally the opposite, but I think most guys respect him to some degree.

Hit 'em straight today.

39

Dinsdale, insulting other users is not permitted in this forum. Please take it to the BBQ Pit.

40

Sorry - should’ve known better.
(Also - as a general rule - should know better than to post in the middle of a crappy morning at work!)