I have nothing substantive to add to this thread, but I felt this sentence deserved to be called out on its own. Strictly because, regardless of who says it, and the myriad ways in which it can be interpreted, the only one that isn’t skeevy is the one way in which China Guy used it.
Heh, very true!
Fascinating thread from the perspective of someone in the business world.
My 2c; possibly only a penny.
First, this is not a normal job interview. If I have the scenario right, your Dad called his old partner and asked him to see if he could find a place for you. Even if you don’t think you want to play that card, that’s the right card to play. I would throw out most of the advice that applies to ordinary HR interviews for unknown candidates applying for specific open positions.
From an economic perspective, the Boss only has one concern. If he hires you will you make more for the company than it costs to have you on board? The reason open positions exist is an expectation that hiring a new employee will net benefit the company.
So the first thing is whether or not the Boss is so close to Dad that he is willing to ignore economics and create a job for you to see if you work out. If the company is very profitable and the Boss is close to Dad, you will get a job. If neither is true, you won’t.
You will know which is the case if you get funneled to regular channels for open positions (you are then just another applicant, with a teeny inside edge; good enough to get an interview), or if you get a personal session with the Boss.
If the personal session is 15 minutes, you are out of luck. Not gonna get a job there. Courtesy wallpaper for Dad, for old time’s sake. If it’s a real interview, or (and this is a spectacularly good sign) Dinner, then you will get a job unless you are completely unqualified for anything. There is no issue about the check, and it’s silly to obsess over it. Offer to pick it up, once. If it’s declined, say Thanks and go back to the conversation.
If you get a real interview:
- Know the Company
- Know the Market
- Know your skillset
- Do not try to create your own position. “I would be great at XYZ.”
- Do not overreach or be too fancy or too rehearsed. Instead, “Hi Boss. Basically I am not in a current role that I see as a long term career. I reached out to Dad, and he suggested I chat you up. Thanks for the opportunity.” The Boss already knows you arent’ happy where you are and from his perspective, the question is whether that’s because you are a crappy employee or just want a career change. There is nothing wrong with wanting a career change.
Unless you are applying for a specific open position, you will be hired on the hope by the Boss that you can earn your keep. Good employees are a valuable asset, and several years down the road almost no valuable employee is in the position for which they originally applied. The actual role the Boss puts you in is nothing more than a best guess. What he is most concerned about is whether or not you can help make the company money as you grow into the available roles. That’s what pays your salary.
So you have to hope that the Boss is in a financial position to hire your brains and let you grow into the proper niche, and that he is attentive enough to your Dad reaching out to create a starting role.
Be enthusiastic. Dress business casual. You are selling brains and personality; not a skillset for a particular job, and not experience. If it looks like you are just hoping someone else pays you a similar salary in a different job b/c you hate your current job, Dad is going to get a polite decline from Boss for the favor. If it looks like you can be a real addition to the team, you’ve got a job if the company’s finances permit it.
Best.
CP
So, in your opinion, business casual even for a formal office environment? I asked my dad if they’re still dressing up old skool there and he said “Oh, I don’t think it’s as formal as it used to be.” “So when you saw Boss last week was he wearing a suit?” “Oh, yeah, but he wasn’t wearing a tie.” That’s what “not as formal as it used to be” is?
I don’t know if I’d do that.
As a woman, you can hit business attire without a suit, though. The only thing with going business sans suit is that most of the looks are very feminine. Nothing wrong with being feminine, but it can be an advantage in some situations and a disadvantage in others.
Maybe I’m a bit behind the times, but for me it seems pretty simple: Wear a dress. Complement it with a simple necklace and earrings and makeup. Don’t show tattoos, if you can help yourself.
Of course, I’m a guy. I would just wear a suit regardless and not worry about the “office standard”, even if I’m interviewing at “20-something Hipster Video Game Designer Co.”
A dress is not the equivalent of a suit. A dress is only sometimes “business attire.” And it is always more feminine than a suit, which isn’t always a good thing.
Yeah, jsgoddess is right - I can see how a dress would work both for and also against me in this particular one. (For: oh, Zsofia sure has grown up! Against: oh, look, a secretary!)
I can also see how a suit could work for and against, though. (And if I wouldn’t be wearing a suit, yes, it would be something that reads more feminine - pencil skirt, tailored blouse, etc. Or a dress. I have a super cute new wrap dress that is totally business appropriate, but does it send the message I want to send? I’m very conflicted.)
It’s extra hard because as a librarian if you don’t look out you eventually start dressing like a kindergarten teacher, and then in your old age a kindergartener.
I’m bowing out of this aspect of the discussion… a bit outside my strengths, here. However, since your father has experience with the business, you may wish to ask him and/or your mother.
I think I would tend toward a suit with feminine touches, either in color, in the blouse, or in accessories.
I do get what Chief Pedant was getting at with the “business casual” thing though - a suit can also look really try-hard, especially if you don’t have one that’s well fitted. As opposed to walking into a meeting of equals where you’re sitting down and saying “hey, here’s what I can do for you.”
ETA - asking my dad about women’s business wear is like asking me about my opinion on the designated hitter - I am aware that there is such a thing and that people hate it, but otherwise I’d be making shit up. I am aware that what women wear does make an impression on him, and does affect his decisions, but he couldn’t tell you the specifics of what and why. And I promise you he couldn’t tell you if a woman was wearing hose if his life depended on it. His subconscious might be able to, though.
EATA - for some reason when I buy nice business stuff I accidentally gravitate to the Dragon Lady - when I got dressed to go on Jeopardy my husband said I looked like “the First Admiral of the Imperial Spacy Navy who got dressed up for a space hanging”.
Dress professionally, I should have said.
Full coverage. Stay neutral w/ accessories and colors.
It’s not critical but it beats jeans.
I think a suit is overkill unless you are reasonably sure this is an executive/leadership position. But if you want to err, and it’s a knowledge-worker job, err toward professional and away from casual, because it sends the right message.
(Boss has been sick, plus holiday week, so everything is on hold.). I was pumping dad for specific information and he offhandedly said “I think maybe [boss] will give you a division and see how you do with it, and you can get more if you do well.” Please tell me my dad is running on old crazy ass data? A division is a state or multiple states. If this guy gives me a division based on my experience in a completely different field with literally zero managerial experience then he seriously needs my help. I mean, I could learn it. I’d knock that shit out of the park if it meant I’d never again have to call the switchboard with “Customer reports feces in the urinal.” But please somebody tell me that business no longer works like that because if I suddenly got that boss I’d knife her in the back. And I don’t mean figuratively.
Privately owned business work the way their private management feels like making them work.
Don’t let anxiety set in because you’ve gotten what you asked for. If the company is successful it’s highly unlikely you will be immediately placed in a critical position without benefit of a mentor or additional training. If you are offered such a role, and you don’t think you can handle it, then suggest an alternate role.
If you just feel a little underqualified, suggest a trial period associated with the right training opportunities as part of the job. People skills and a capacity to learn are as important to bring to management roles as are diplomas.
Well, just as long as the SDMB is here to offer advice if I come back and say “Um, I’m charge of Kansas now.”
If you know this guy, it will be easier to talk to him. Schmooze him. Work it girl!
And wear what would be appropriate on the job site. You dont want to be over or under dressed. 
Wow, Kansas just got an upgrade!
In case anybody’s dying for an update, he was out sick for quite a bit - I did finally speak to him on the phone very briefly when I called his office and evidently it forwarded to his cell phone in a doctor’s office. He said he’d call me back but hasn’t. It’s been indicated to me that that is not at all uncommon for him. (Maybe he does need a secretary.) I think my dad is headed out there today for some things, and I suspect will try and light a fire under him. Meanwhile I, of course, am about to gnaw a paw off.
I finally have a sit down scheduled for the first week of the new year, just in case people are wondering.
Congratulations! Is it next week or the week after? How long is the meeting scheduled for? And is there an agenda (not necessarily something typed out, but maybe you were told "we’re going to discuss various opportunities in CorpX)?