When we were house hunting, we saw a condo. In the guy’s den was a picture frame that was your kinda standard 8 1/2x11". It had a couple of Seals photos, including BATS graduation of his group, and IIRC some sort of insignea. Nicely done. Pretty sure this guy was an ex Seal. didn’t meet him though and didn’t want to buy his condo
Right, I think everyone knows there are tons of people who brag about stuff they haven’t done. I’m pretty sure that’s literally something that is as old as human beings, dating back to Grog and Ulan bragging about how they were especially brave on their most recent hunting expedition when they were engaged in guttural grunting and gesturing towards the tribe’s women when they got back.
But factually it’s very safe to say that in the entire world today, there at at least 100,000 ex-special forces. It’s a small number, but it’s all relative. Just going by the numbers if a random guy in a bar says he is a former member of some elite, special military force there is a small chance he really is. If he says he used to be an astronaut, there is a small chance that is true as well. But ex-astronauts are a much smaller population than ex-special forces.
Now that being said, being either of those things is very rare in terms of the total population of the planet. So we have to use ancient techniques that most people probably developed naturally called “spotting a bullshitter.” If someone comes off as a blowhard and makes claims that don’t make sense, then you probably don’t need to call the Army or Navy and talk to someone knowledgeable to analyze their claims–they’re probably lying.
Generally the biggest telltale sign someone is lying about anything is when they are making grandiloquent claims designed to make themselves look impressive. I don’t care if they’re claiming to have been the inspiration for John Rambo and have 7 “secret” Medal of Honors stored in a vault under the White House or they’re claiming to be a famous record producer in a club filled with women usually people who need to tell you about why they’re awesome probably aren’t very awesome. Real famous record producers don’t need to show up at a random club and woo women with their life story, they show up at clubs with women in tow.
Likewise, a bona fide war hero doesn’t have anything to prove to anyone. I’ve met some actual war heroes, and while most of them aren’t shy they also aren’t blowhard braggarts–because they’ve proven themselves on a far more important stage than the local pub. So you can bet right away, anyone bragging about themselves excessively, regardless of what sort of accomplishment, is probably full of shit. I’ve known a lot of successful businessmen, some genuine war heroes, people of that nature. Most of these people have a high degree of self-esteem and generally people with high self-esteem aren’t the ones who brag about themselves and try to impress people at local bars or at family barbecues.
Now, a few genuine war heroes have gone and written books and whored their exploits out to make money and fame for themselves. Those guys probably break the mold and are braggarts in person, I’ve not known any like that though, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. But there are real war heroes who have personality flaws that might lead them to brag about themselves all the time, but they are a rare subset of an already rare subset.
Elite military people are professionals. They act professional. If the person making these claims doesn’t seem like a professional, they’re full of shit.
They’re not called “special forces”, heck, they’re not even military, but the TEDAX are the branch of the Spanish National Police who go where a bomb is and defuse/explode it, hopefully without blowing themselves up.
I had a factory manager who cursed like a sailor without ever, ever using a curseword, and who expected instant reactions and obbeisance on every order, from the minutest to things that were going to take days simply to set up and weeks to perform. We use to remark on what a sergeant he was.
Then one day, at one of our factories abroad, I saw the notice of his promotion to factory manager, which included the usual minibio…
Turns out dude was a former TEDAX sergeant; his chemical training had started on nitro and goma cuatro (I think it’s C4 in English). He wouldn’t have mentioned it to us in a milliion years.
Those who done walk the walk don’t bother with the talk.
Under Siege.Warning: may be damaging to mental health, specially if taken seriously. Do not watch with expectations of acting, do watch if you enjoy Stuff Blowing Up.
The stupid thing about this guy was the we were starting to become friends. Fellow foreigners in the same neighborhood in Tokyo where 99.9% of the population are Japanese. Our kids are the same age, and love to play with each other. They have only been here for three months out of a six-month stay.
The wife is working, and he is a SAHD, so maybe he thought he needed to justify his manliness or something.
So were were at the park, and he gives this story about going through the special forces training, which he claimed he did as a civilian :rolleyes: with the point being that he had the option of opting out at the end :rolleyes: which he did after 99 percent of the other people were washed out :rolleyes: and he got thought the whole program before decided it wasn’t for him. :rolleyes: Let’s see, only four :rolleyes: in that sentence – I’m understating my feelings.
The first time I head someone claim to be former Green Beret, I was in college and believed anyone who opened their mouths. Only in hindsight, do I see the BS.
Then was the time my (now former) best friend gave me a BS story of going through sniper school when he was briefly in the army (he got washed out of basic training because of his bad basketball knee). Some 20 years after the event he suddenly told me this tale, involving a super secret mission to someplace he didn’t know in South America to kill someone he only knew from a photo. Got flown in by helicopter* to some location, hiked the remaining 3 km, and with his spotter set up to kill the guy, but chickened out at the last moment. So, rather than return him to the regular army, they discharged him.
While he was telling me this garbage, I couldn’t figure out why he would lie to me. Afterward, I figured out that he was desperately trying to keep a girlfriend going, and giving her increasingly larger and larger lies to make him look good. She was rightfully suspicious and had asked why he had never told his best friend.
And what is doubly or triply stupid about this Danish guy is that right now in my life, what I’m most interested in now is raising kids. I can and do talk all day to other parents. I’d much rather have a chat about where the borderline should be between disciple and freedom for three-year-olds than talk to a special forces guy. OK, if there were a real ex-special forces guy it would be cool to talk to, but I’ve got no less than zero interest in listening to military BS.
Notes:
And this was from a guy who would get seasick doing down elevators more than three floors.*
**OK, I’m bitching about people exaggerating. It was four floors.
I think there are only about 2000-3000 active duty SEALs, with about 150 or so active duty members of SEAL team six. Rangers have about 2000-3000 members, and delta force has about 150 or so (roughly, from what I know). I have no idea about Marine Recon, Green Berets, Air Force commandos, etc.
But that probably adds up to 10-15k or so active duty special forces soldiers. Add in all the retired ones and I’m guessing somewhere in the 100-200k range.
Not by a long shot. Neither Rangers or Ariborne are Special Forces. Rangers are specialized Light Infantry. The Ranger Regiment does fall under the umbrella of US Special Operations Command but they are by no means SF. They are 11Bs who are trained for a specific type of mission. Damn good at what they do but not at all the same kind of mission. And there is also a big difference between the tab and the scroll. US Army Ranger School is a 2 month combat leadership course. It is open to all soldiers in the Army regardless of MOS. If they graduate they get to wear a tab on their uniform that says “Ranger”. Most will never work in the Ranger Regiment. Those assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment wear the scroll as their unit patch and work as Rangers. Not all of them have gone to Ranger School.
Airborne is a two week school. Most graduates jump 5 times and get to wear the wings. Airborne units like the 82nd or the 173rd are not Special Forces or even under Special Operations Command. They are regular Light Infantry units that have the capability to jump into battle.
I did mention that when not speaking specifically about American forces then the terms get muddy. Since I have some knowledge about it and most (especially motorgirl) were talking about Americans I added information.
Just wanted to clarify because I was in a hurry when I replied.
Its possible your friend could fit in the broad definition of what Martin Hyde was saying. Depending on the country you are talking about the term could be overly broad. However, unlike the OP you were speaking of someone in the US Army. And you specifically stated he was in “US Army Special Forces”. I am not saying he is lying. I couldn’t even begin to form an opinion unless I heard it from him. If he is a linguist or HUMINT he may very have worked WITH them. Or maybe he is SF and you misunderstood something. But in SF there are specific jobs and these are the only ones authorized to wear the Green Beret and call themselves Special Forces:
18A – Special Forces Officer
180A – Special Forces Warrant Officer
18B – Special Forces Weapons Sergeant
18C – Special Forces Engineer Sergeant
18D – Special Forces Medical Sergeant
18E – Special Forces Communications Sergeant
18F – Special Forces Assistant Operations and Intelligence Sergeant
18X – Special Forces Candidate
18Z – Special Forces Senior Sergeant
What you describe does not fall into any category. And every Special Forces soldier must know second language as part of their training.
I lol’d. 
I liked the synopsis, too. I should ask BIL if he’s ever seen that movie…
I don’t know why SEAL Team Six gets all the glory. My old unit, SEAL Team Five, does all the hard work so that those pansies can just walk right and take credit.
Maybe the OPs friend was in the Very Special Forces.
Yeah, while I won’t say it is common some guys who spent most of their careers in peace time (I’m in that category myself, and have no shame about it/no desire to embellish my record. I retired before 9/11 and came in after Vietnam so that was a time of relative peace) will start to talk up their status as “Army Rangers.” This became a lot more common in the 1990s when you started to see documentaries on Ranger training and things of that nature. However the truth is a huge percentage of career officers go through Ranger school, it’s seen almost as a necessity to advancement. Most go through Airborne training as well. However almost none serve in the Ranger Regiment or actually have a lot of jumps under their belt.
In fact while times have changed, in the 80s it was considered important for advancement to get your Ranger tab but it was considered negative for your advancement to actually be in the Ranger Regiment, joining unconventional units like Special Forces was considered even worse for advancement. Green Berets didn’t usually become Colonels; but that’s something that has changed considerably in the past 10-15 years.
Typically people use special forces to mean “unconventional” military units. Unfortunately it’s very difficult when talking internationally to evaluate who is and isn’t unconventional military. My understanding of Spetsnaz (and I could be wrong) is during the Cold War it had 50k+ men, but it was more like USSOCOM; so some Spetsnaz soldiers might actually not be trained in unconventional warfare at all.
People actually in the U.S. Army will generally put a lot of importance on terminology. For that reason I think if Motorgirl’s friend was in the Army and said he was part of “Special Forces”, he would be very unusual to be using that term to reference job in say, PSYOPS. PSYOPS guys might refer to themselves as special ops but they wouldn’t refer to themselves as Special Forces, because within the Army that distinction is very important (for the more general discussion it wouldn’t be, as much.)
It’s very possible Motorgirl’s friend used the term special ops and she misremembered it.
Maybe many of these people *intended *to become some kind of special forces. Kinda like being a college dropout is better than being a high school graduate?
**Lust4Life **maybe can jump in?
Its still true now. You are much more likely as an officer to make rank on the logistical side rather than Special Ops. Not as bad as before because that side has expanded but still not the way to go if you want a flag with some exceptions.
In my Armor Officer Basic course back in 98 we had a bunch that were trying to get into Ranger school just for the tab. I was an old OCS grad and in the guard so I just shook my head at them and slept in an extra hour in the morning.
Yeah thats why I said I wouldn’t think of calling him a liar. I would not rely on a message like that put through the filter of someone who is not fluent in Armyese.
That’s a very good policy. It’s more than possible that I am miremembering exact terminology at a remove of 15 years. We’re still friends, but his army career ended in the late 90s and we rarely talk about his army years beyond him retelling some funny stories (mainly about his lost year in Kentucky.) He went through both ranger training and airborne training but was not a ranger nor did he do anything airborne anything post-Kuwait.
Everyone WANTS to be S.F. and everyone thinks that they can dredge up the stamina, endurance etc.etc. if they would ever do a S.F. selection, particulary when they’re in the bar talking about it.
Anyone can be a hero, …
When they’re warm and dry, and have had sleep in the last few days.
But many, many people give up when soaked to the skin, tired and with aching leg and back muscles they’re called on to do a bit more, how big or small a bit they’re not told.
So if you fail, you fail and get no Kudos for it.
IME people never fail selection because they’ve had enough and want to give up, its always because they’ve suffered an injury of some sort, sprain etc.
Honest guvnor !
The annoying thing about this is, that when doing Bergan Bashing tests(going over the hills carrying weight) if you actually DID sustain an injury, you had to keep going to the end, otherwise your mates would make you the subject of intense mockery, so we made sure that we never gave up.
A large part of S.F. selection is a character test.
I know Andy McNabb (aka Steven Mitchell?) basically writes fiction but how realistic is his description of the SAS selection process?
I read another autobiography of a guy that joined the army at 16, was in S Africa for a while, was in the regiment then a policeman and finally barrister. IIRC, he claimed to have set the new record (at that time) for the fan dance. It was quite an interesting read. Again how accurate?
Any books on the Regiment that you recommend?