[QUOTE=Mighty_Girl]
… but I deal mostly graphics, photography and web-design, things that Mac is better at.
[/QUOTE]
This is just such a ridiculous notion. Can you give me one reason why Macs are better at those things? And don’t bother saying “Cause it’s pretty and shiny!”, which is what every Mac user eventually falls back on. Which isn’t even a universal fact. I like the design of some PC’s a lot better than I like some of the Mac’s I’ve seen.
[QUOTE=Kinthalis]
This is just such a ridiculous notion. Can you give me one reason why Macs are better at those things? And don’t bother saying “Cause it’s pretty and shiny!”, which is what every Mac user eventually falls back on. Which isn’t even a universal fact. I like the design of some PC’s a lot better than I like some of the Mac’s I’ve seen.
[/QUOTE]
You know, I’m not sure why people still have this impression, as the line is a lot blurrier now than it used to be in the 90s. Back in the 90s, if you were a graphic artist, you used a Mac. This is still mostly true, but now that Windows is playing nicer with the way it handles graphic formats and supported software there’s not much difference.
There are certain nice tricks that the Mac can do that is superior over Windows… but they’re not deal breakers, it just makes working on the Mac much nicer and less frustrating. Things like QuickLook, Coverflow in the finder, Spotlight for finding myriad images spread all over god knows how many projects incredibly fast, the way the system renders fonts and text on screen, the development APIs for OSX are a dream and utilize some very nice, powerful and speedy ways for dealing with video and images. Quicktime is basically integrated in the OS, and arguably handles video the best when compared to things like WMP and others. Screen Sharing is also nice when collaborating with my collegues and clients. Want to tweak the way the camera is moving in this scene? Let’s just Screen Share, and you can watch me work, as I make the change the client want’s to see. Saves a lot in communication, and workflow – feels like we’re in the same room.
Apple has been the premier leader in developing technology and standards in the video and graphics environment. They pay a LOT of attention to such things, and understand that people use the computer to work and manipulate with such content. So most things they develop or integrate into their OS, feels slick, clean, speedy, and state-of-the-art.
A lot of users also say Mac’s interface is superior to that of windows when you’re knee deep in a project. I love to use Exposé, when I’ve got 4 apps open at the same time, and some have 10 windows open… click-boom, I can see everything at once, and get to the window I need immediately.
I’ve never worked in Windows in my professional career, but I’ve heard Macs are much better when it comes to plug and play type devices. Printers, cameras, hard drives, all such things. In my experience, this is largely true, although I can still have problems like every other computer. But one thing Apple is fantastically good at, and that’s integration. The way all their software and hardware work like one machine, even if it’s comprised of several modules.
There are certain industry standard pieces of software that aren’t even available on a PC. Granted, most of these apps are made by Apple themselves, like Final Cut Pro for professional video editing, but the reverse can also be true. I work in 3D/CGI/Animation now, and 3D studio Max isn’t available.
But I’d say over the years things like that have ebbed and flowed. To this day, production on the Mac, as far as numbers of professionals working on such rigs, are still very high. And development and support for the Mac is livelier than ever now that Apple’s switched over to Intel processors, 64 bit OS, and all that techno-gobletygook. So, when you’re working professionally, it makes a LOT of sense for a ton of reasons to be using the same system as most everyone else.
Also, graphics people put value in what you consider “pretty and shiny”. Good design isn’t about making things just look pretty for its own sake, it’s making it feel good to use, while also making it as intuitive and usable as possible. This makes spending 18 hour days, stuck behind an interface less stressful and more enjoyable.
So, I’m kind of all over the map there, as it’s hard to quantify, but there are reasons (and probably more than I’m mentioning here), and I wouldn’t use anything other than a Mac to work and play on. Perhaps some one else here can speak better about the core APIs and UNIX underpinnings that make Mac a superior OS for such things over Windows, now and in the future, but in general it’s true… they’re just better at handling visual content than Windows (unless you can argue differently?).
[QUOTE=Kinthalis]
This is just such a ridiculous notion. Can you give me one reason why Macs are better at those things? And don’t bother saying “Cause it’s pretty and shiny!”, which is what every Mac user eventually falls back on. Which isn’t even a universal fact. I like the design of some PC’s a lot better than I like some of the Mac’s I’ve seen.
[/QUOTE]
There’s also some software that’s simply not available for the PC, like Aperture and Final Cut Studio. To be fair, I actually use Lightroom, Adobe’s competitor to Lightroom, for my photo management (which is available for both platforms), but I far prefer Final Cut to Adobe Premiere. I know videographers who use the Mac simply because they’re far more productive and familiar with Final Cut than any PC equivalents.
Also, and I don’t know how true this is anymore, but color management has historically been handled better by the Macintoshes, as those computers are built for this sort of work. Mac seems to be better at honoring ICC profiles when opening images and that sort of thing, just right out of the box, but I’m sure there must be a way to get the equivalent functionality on a PC.
[QUOTE=cmyk]
You know, I’m not sure why people still have this impression, as the line is a lot blurrier now than it used to be in the 90s. Back in the 90s, if you were a graphic artist, you used a Mac. This is still mostly true, but now that Windows is playing nicer with the way it handles graphic formats and supported software there’s not much difference.
There are certain nice tricks that the Mac can do that is superior over Windows… but they’re not deal breakers, it just makes working on the Mac much nicer and less frustrating. Things like QuickLook, Coverflow in the finder, Spotlight for finding myriad images spread all over god knows how many projects incredibly fast, the way the system renders fonts and text on screen, the development APIs for OSX are a dream and utilize some very nice, powerful and speedy ways for dealing with video and images. Quicktime is basically integrated in the OS, and arguably handles video the best when compared to things like WMP and others. Screen Sharing is also nice when collaborating with my collegues and clients. Want to tweak the way the camera is moving in this scene? Let’s just Screen Share, and you can watch me work, as I make the change the client want’s to see. Saves a lot in communication, and workflow – feels like we’re in the same room.
Apple has been the premier leader in developing technology and standards in the video and graphics environment. They pay a LOT of attention to such things, and understand that people use the computer to work and manipulate with such content. So most things they develop or integrate into their OS, feels slick, clean, speedy, and state-of-the-art.
A lot of users also say Mac’s interface is superior to that of windows when you’re knee deep in a project. I love to use Exposé, when I’ve got 4 apps open at the same time, and some have 10 windows open… click-boom, I can see everything at once, and get to the window I need immediately.
I’ve never worked in Windows in my professional career, but I’ve heard Macs are much better when it comes to plug and play type devices. Printers, cameras, hard drives, all such things. In my experience, this is largely true, although I can still have problems like every other computer. But one thing Apple is fantastically good at, and that’s integration. The way all their software and hardware work like one machine, even if it’s comprised of several modules.
There are certain industry standard pieces of software that aren’t even available on a PC. Granted, most of these apps are made by Apple themselves, like Final Cut Pro for professional video editing, but the reverse can also be true. I work in 3D/CGI/Animation now, and 3D studio Max isn’t available.
But I’d say over the years things like that have ebbed and flowed. To this day, production on the Mac, as far as numbers of professionals working on such rigs, are still very high. And development and support for the Mac is livelier than ever now that Apple’s switched over to Intel processors, 64 bit OS, and all that techno-gobletygook. So, when you’re working professionally, it makes a LOT of sense for a ton of reasons to be using the same system as most everyone else.
Also, graphics people put value in what you consider “pretty and shiny”. Good design isn’t about making things just look pretty for its own sake, it’s making it feel good to use, while also making it as intuitive and usable as possible. This makes spending 18 hour days, stuck behind an interface less stressful and more enjoyable.
So, I’m kind of all over the map there, as it’s hard to quantify, but there are reasons (and probably more than I’m mentioning here), and I wouldn’t use anything other than a Mac to work and play on. Perhaps some one else here can speak better about the core APIs and UNIX underpinnings that make Mac a superior OS for such things over Windows, now and in the future, but in general it’s true… they’re just better at handling visual content than Windows (unless you can argue differently?).
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but besides that?
[QUOTE=Kinthalis]
This is just such a ridiculous notion. Can you give me one reason why Macs are better at those things? And don’t bother saying “Cause it’s pretty and shiny!”, which is what every Mac user eventually falls back on. Which isn’t even a universal fact. I like the design of some PC’s a lot better than I like some of the Mac’s I’ve seen.
[/QUOTE]
Massive library. Wanted Aperture.
Also, and this may just be a matter of luck, much as I have tried I have yet to get the Mac to crash while handling many large image files at the same time. Something I find not uncommon with PCs.
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
To be fair, I actually use Lightroom, Adobe’s competitor to Lightroom.
[/QUOTE]
ahem…Adobe’s competitor to Aperture.
edit: Unfortunately, I have not been as lucky as Mighty Girl. Much as I prefer the Mac environment to the Windows environment, I can’t honestly say the Mac crashes less often than the PC boxes I’ve had. Neither crash very often at all, but they both do crash from time to time. The worst was a couple days ago when Lightroom decided to go all apeshit on me and I was forced to do a hard reset (turn the power off).
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
It sounds like you’ve spent 50% of your time trying to make a Mac work like a Windows box, and 40% trying to run apps that aren’t designed for it. Why did you buy a Mac to begin with?
Stranger
[/QUOTE]
Short answer: Because when my kids were young I had to have a PC. We could only have one, the Mac was way more expensive, and I occasionally brought work home, for instance when certain people had chicken pox. They wanted a Mac, because that’s what they used at school. So naturally, when they grew up and got rich and successful, the first thing that came into their heads was to buy their parents a REAL computer. Hence the Mac.
Or maybe it was revenge.
And by the way, how is it that you saw my desk? Now I’m all paranoid. It was the Mac, wasn’t it?
[QUOTE=Terminus Est]
She thought it would make her hotter.
[/QUOTE]
It did make me hotter, apparently. Every time I use it I end up sweating like you wouldn’t believe.
[QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze]
And by the way, how is it that you saw my desk? Now I’m all paranoid. It was the Mac, wasn’t it?
[/QUOTE]
“The first thing you should know about our organization is that we have people everywhere.” – Mr. White, Quantum of Solace
Stranger
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver]
Yeah, but besides that?
[/QUOTE]
The CD tray makes a great Pepsi holder, and the aluminum construction is perfect for time travel.
That is, if you’ve got the iFluxCapacitor.
[QUOTE=Athena]
I just loooove the idea of writing shell scripts to make things start automatically upon boot, for example.
[/QUOTE]
Why do you have to do that?
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
Why do you have to do that?
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2602
[/QUOTE]
Starting upon login is not the same as starting upon boot.
The application I’d like to have start automatically needs system-level access, which is not available as a start-on-login thing. From what I gather, it’s possible to do this on a Mac, but not without writing shell scripts. The shell script I’d need to write requires I have root access, so I gotta use sudo. On the fookin’ Mac, sudu requires a password. I don’t want to put a password on the mac since I have absolutely no reason to have one, other that to write this stupid shell script.
It was at this point I decided all you “Macs just work! They’re so easy!” people never do anything other than surf the net, read email, and play with PhotoShop.
[QUOTE=Athena]
Starting upon login is not the same as starting upon boot.
[/QUOTE]
How do you do a starting upon boot in Windows? Suppose I have application X that I want to run every time the computer starts up. How do I do it?
[QUOTE=cmyk]
Macs suck. You can’t even right-click with them, they’re WAAAAY more expensive than a PC, and really, they look good but at the cost of usability. Not to mention, you can’t customize them at all. There’s no software for it, and all the apps open in a window, where you can still see the desktop underneath.
You honestly have to be out of your mind to use a Mac.
gotchya ya! I have an 8-core Mac pro, a new MacBook, an old iMac, and 3 Mac Minis for a render farm. Plus 1 iPod and an iPhone. Macs are delicious.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I agree!
(insert smiley face)
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever]
Oh, I agree!
(insert smiley face)
[/QUOTE]
Just hang in there buster, I’ll convert you yet…
[QUOTE=Athena]
Starting upon login is not the same as starting upon boot.
The application I’d like to have start automatically needs system-level access, which is not available as a start-on-login thing. From what I gather, it’s possible to do this on a Mac, but not without writing shell scripts. The shell script I’d need to write requires I have root access, so I gotta use sudo. On the fookin’ Mac, sudu requires a password. I don’t want to put a password on the mac since I have absolutely no reason to have one, other that to write this stupid shell script.
[/quote]
I’m not going to ask what kind of shell script you need that requires root access, but just in general this sounds like a Really Bad Idea. Better to set up a dummy user (with no login permissions) who has the requisite administrative permissions to perform the requisite actions. You can also have OS X automatically log into an account and run its startup configs if you don’t want to muck with shell scripts.
Well, on the other side of things, you have the experienced sysadmins and developers who say, “OS X is awesome! I can see how everything works, I have comprehensible specs and completely documented APIs, and I can control the system using the awk, sed, and perl shell scripts I’ve been using for years instead of some clunky and marginally functional DOS batch files!” There is also AppleScript and the Open Scripting Architecture that lets you write scripts and utilities (or in the case of AS, just record as a keystroke-type macro) interface operations between applications using AS, perl, Python, Ruby, JavaScript, or any other language or scripting engine that is supported by OSA. You can kind of do this with .NET on Microsoft operating systems, but only if you also enjoy shoving red hot pokers up your rectum and long candlelit walks over hot coals and glass. Seriously, this is kind of a lame criticism of OS X.
Stranger
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
How do you do a starting upon boot in Windows? Suppose I have application X that I want to run every time the computer starts up. How do I do it?
[/QUOTE]
There’s a ton of ways. Here’s the two most common, used in probably 99% of the situations:
If it’s a Windows Service, it shows up in the Services window, accessible via the Control Panel or right-clicking the “My Computer” icon. The Services window is a UI that allows you to configure the Service. Most of the time, you don’t have to go there - when you install it, it asks if you want it to automatically start, and if you say Yes, it sets itself up.
If it’s not a Service, you can drag & drop it into the Startup folder and it’ll start automatically.
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
I’m not going to ask what kind of shell script you need that requires root access, but just in general this sounds like a Really Bad Idea. Better to set up a dummy user (with no login permissions) who has the requisite administrative permissions to perform the requisite actions. You can also have OS X automatically log into an account and run its startup configs if you don’t want to muck with shell scripts.
Well, on the other side of things, you have the experienced sysadmins and developers who say, “OS X is awesome! I can see how everything works, I have comprehensible specs and completely documented APIs, and I can control the system using the awk, sed, and perl shell scripts I’ve been using for years instead of some clunky and marginally functional DOS batch files!” There is also AppleScript and the Open Scripting Architecture that lets you write scripts and utilities (or in the case of AS, just record as a keystroke-type macro) interface operations between applications using AS, perl, Python, Ruby, JavaScript, or any other language or scripting engine that is supported by OSA. You can kind of do this with .NET on Microsoft operating systems, but only if you also enjoy shoving red hot pokers up your rectum and long candlelit walks over hot coals and glass. Seriously, this is kind of a lame criticism of OS X.
Stranger
[/QUOTE]
No, it’s not a Really Bad Idea to run my thing at startup. I’m the only user of this machine, it’s a simple app that allows keyboard/mouse sharing between computers, and I don’t need twelve levels of security to protect me from myself.
And as far as it being a lame criticism… whatever. Your example is basically saying that sysadmins/administrators who are used to using Unix like OSX because it’s Unixy and they can run their shell scripts. Bring in a pile of Windows sysadmins/developers and they’re going to be bummed that their batch files and other gizmos they like to use don’t work well on OSX/Unix. Big deal - people like what they’re used to. Me included. Every day I don’t have to use sed and awk and VI is a good day for me, I think they’re antiquated & a pain in the ass. And yes, I know how to use them.
<shrug> All that said, I don’t want to turn this into yet another Mac versus PC thread. I’m just sayin’ that people can buy Macs and still like Windows better :D.
[QUOTE=Athena]
If it’s a Windows Service, it shows up in the Services window, accessible via the Control Panel or right-clicking the “My Computer” icon.
[/quote]
I know about services, but I can’t just take any application and make it a service, as far as I know. A service has to be created by the software developer. And usually services are made part of the startup process when I install the software. It’s not my responsibility to go add it to the list of services. If I did want to add a service to the list of services manually, it wouldn’t be any easier than it is on the Macintosh OS X - I would have to know where to put it in the registry and manually edit the registry.
I thought the Startup folder contained items that started up at login?
From the article:
[QUOTE=Athena]
All that said, I don’t want to turn this into yet another Mac versus PC thread. I’m just sayin’ that people can buy Macs and still like Windows better.
[/QUOTE]
I agree on that also. I was just curious what you were saying about boot startup items being easier on the Macintosh than on Windows - in my experience this wasn’t true, and I was eager to learn if I was mistaken.
In 99% of the cases, the examples I’ve seen of ordinary users (I include programmers in this situation - I work for a development company) claiming that “function X is easier on Windows vs. Macintosh” (or vice-versa) just comes from a lack of knowledge on how to do something on the operating system with which they are less familiar.