Which means that the Future is just like the Present, only with spaceships. 
I think that was pretty much what Whedon was going for, actually. Great technology != wise and benevolent civilization.
Stranger
The ration bars are worth noting, since they’re very, very valuable. (One can feed a family for a month.) They were on a wrecked ship, but that doesn’t imply they’re free to anybody who happens to come along, and with the problem moral hazard, stopping illegal salvage makes perfect sense. If you find an independent transport carry the goods, you’ve no idea whether they were gained by piracy or salvage, so it is good for the government to ban the illegal salvage. If the universe were less rough and tumble, the issue would probably be different.
The cows were on Persephone, and IIRC, which really isn’t a core planet. My recollection is that it was local laws, not the Alliance, that created the cattle barrier; recall that the job was set up for Badger’s criminal enterprise, and he’s a criminal even on Persephone. Jaynestown is another example where the local governments are imposing oppression on an extreme scale. And, of course, Patience is the perfect example of very immature local corruption: corruption to the point where even those paying bribes are going to want to avoid the area. (I know a businessman who was run out of post-Soviet Russia when the crime organizations hadn’t yet gotten the idea of sustainable graft.)
In Ariel, the hospital staff are generally pretty reasonable, and considering it’s a hostpital, the doctor was right to be cautious about who’s wandering around. Not to mention that a significant criminal enterprise was undertaken with few contacts—and that included getting phony credentials and driving an unlicensed ambulance right into a secure hospital zone.
For Simon, the oppression revolves around a very, very narrow problem that really isn’t reflective of the society as a whole any more than, as I mentioned, Iran Contra would be reflective of the U.S. Otherwise, he never seems to think of freedom as anything other than keeping his sister safe. For her part, Inara is quite positive about the Alliance, and she is one who travels extensively outside its borders.
I suspect the war was more one of Realpolitik than righteousness: widely spread 'verse thick with corruption and graft; local dictators like Patience and Burgess oppressing their own people and—most likely—encouraging piracy within their neighborhoods.
Miranda was a big deal, to be sure, but keep the scale and reality in perspective: that was just a device because there’s no way they wouldn’t have known of the effects on a small scale before trying a planet. Even if they were as bad as Stalin, the gov’t. would not have wanted to risk that kind of investment without some sort of pilot study. In addition, there are too many Reavers to be justified by that story. I just think that was a bit of grasping at straws that made for a nice movie, but didn’t really fit with the reality of the show. (Compare Bushwacked with the film: there is a huge disconnect in the story of the reavers.)
As for the reavers, recall the commander’s reaction in Bushwacked. That guy knew nothing about reavers, nor did Simon.
So, in toto, I don’t see that much Alliance oppression, especially not when compared to the alternatives. I suspect it’s mostly in need of some serious re-organization, along with a more stringent Bill of Rights, perhaps. The Alliance seems to be way too top heavy, one where the job of the state is to really govern the people, but not one that would be oppressive in, say, an Orwellian sense. I don’t think Mal is a bad guy for fighting against it, nor for engaging in his criminal enterprises; however, I do suspect that he has blown the evils of the enemy out of proportion to what was truly justified.
I disagree strongly and that death is what soured me on Firefly (not that it doesn’t have some great moments, I cheerfully concede). That character died for one reason and one reason alone- Whedon is Hollywood to the core and in Hollywood you simply aren’t allowed to have a happy long term married couple. Far from being “a brilliant move” that death was a sell-out. (Hey now we get to have more sexual tension if we ever make more! :rolleyes: )
I tried watching it on TV, and was bored and confused. Then I watched the whole DVD, and in the right order+ I saw the film. Watched more or less all at once, and it was much much better. But it hardly ascends to gawdhood or anything. I actually enjoyed ST (Kirk) more, although I again concede there was some serious dreck moments there, too. I give Firefly/Serenity a 7.5- pretty damn good but not great.
Not necessarily. We don’t know that these things aren’t sold on the open market. We just know Mal & Co aren’t supposed to be selling them. Most likely they fell off the back of the space truck.
In space, no one can hear you moo.
Daniel
Damn the Dope! The two worst puns I’ve ever heard within five minutes of each other…pure torture.
Neither of those were puns.
::taking a drag on my cigarette::
You know, I KILLED a man in Las Vegas last January just for saying that.
Okay. Actually it was Reno and it was just to watch him die, but it’s the same principle.
For saying what? Wash’s death was retarded. By way of analogy, here’s what the movie Serenity was like: imagine that after publishing the first book of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy, the publisher ordered Tolkien to finish the tale in but one short story. If you can imagine that, then you might understand Serenity.
Although, it must be acknowledged that Joss Wheedon is no genius. He may be better than most of the scrubs making television shows, but that ain’t saying much. (No offense.)
That said, Firefly was an outstanding show that Fox retardedly killed. They could have done a much better job: I had never heard of it, but flipping through the channels, I came across some super-lame wannabe space western, and I turned away. If I had some grasp of what it was intended to be, I would have watched.
Miller, neither of what where puns? The “moo” thing seems like a pun, since it’s a play on words, but I am not about to claim I know the technical definition of pun. What I’m really wondering about is what you think was the other alleged pun, since it wasn’t located in this thread.
Curiously yours,
jsh
You are bringing more to this table than a glass of water.
Somebody had to die in order to emphasize the fact that the characters were in a dire situation; not one of those fakey desperations where they suddenly find a trap door, or super weapon, or somesuch where they escape unharmed, but one where there’s reason to believe that main characters could actually die. And Wash (along with Kaylee) was one of the true innocents. It seems so improbable that anything really bad could happen to him that his death was a transition, a shift into a much darker thematic motif; their desperation doesn’t seem conjured up, but real and immediate.
Other charcters could have been sacrificed, of course, but it wouldn’t have the same impact. Killing off Jayne, for instance, would have actually been something of a relief, and readily replaced with some other thug. (I say that with the admission that he’s my favorite of the bunch.) Eliminating Inara would turn into a cliche (death of a love interest), as would the death of Zoe (death of an old comrade). Killing Simon would have basically been an nonsequitor. The only death that would have had the same impact would be Kaylee, and all things considered, I’m rather glad he didn’t do that.
Whedon isn’t a phenomenal innovator, I’ll concede–while he’s crossing genres and playing with their conventions, he’s still staying comfortably in sight of conventional plotting–but he’s hardly “typical Hollywood”. If you want to see “typical Hollywood”, take a look at the recent output of George Lucas, or Martin Scorsese, or the “Love Conquers All” cut of Brazil. That’s hackneyed, predictable plotting.
Stranger
Not true. I had never watched a full episode before seeing the movie, and I still knew the danger they were in, and it was obvious Wash’s death was pure prostitution. Indeed, the stand-off scene with the reavers was pure bullshit, and I was swearing like a sailor at the pure stupidity of it. The movie was a terrible discredit to the series, and any so-called facts based on it should be considered pure slander.
I thought the movie was okay, which surprised me, and that is why I watched the televison DVDs. You will be hard pressed to convince me that the film was nothing less than pure prostution.
They don’t have jokes where you grew up, do they?
I disagree with you about Wash’s death, BTW, but I don’t care enough to argue.
To be fair, they DID suddenly find a super weapon. The major reason Zoe & the rest of the crew survived was River’s superhuman prowess, and the reason her fight with the reavers goes unseen is that it’s so ridiculous.
I still think Wash had to die, though. Now they can move on to putting Zoe & Inara in the shower together, as Zeus intended.
It does seem as though one of them would have said, “Ah Hell, just shoot her.”
Psst! Shepherd Book . 
I like the fanwank theory that they had actually decided she was their new Godess, or something along those lines and were sacrificing themselves by throwing themselves at her in a finely choreographed death sequence (and you thought the Reavers had no appreciation of the arts!) 
Hey, its Elite with people! 
Good series, great movie, why did it sink without a trace?!
Yes I know why, but I feel I must ask anyway
That excuse doesn’t fly. The existence of a few bad apples is inevitable, given human nature as we know it. The difference between a reasonably good government and an evil regime is that the former roots out and punishes the bad apples to the best of its ability and the latter covers up and protects them. The Alliance’s behavior is clearly established as fitting the latter description.
Well, I won’t dispute that. I was just saying that even if, for the sake of argument, we disregard Miranda, there’s still ample evidence that the Alliance is corrupt. I do agree that Miranda was rather extreme, even as atrocities go, and at least some of the blame almost certainly goes all the way to the top (at the least, a large chunk of Parliament was in on the cover-up). But there were probably plenty of sector governors and undersecretaries and miscellaneous minor functionaries who weren’t in any position to know or do anything about things like Miranda, but who were in a position to do something about oppressive taxes, wage slavery, and broken social support structures. It’s not that there are bad apples in the system; it’s that there are so few good ones.