So I just watched Naruto...

And by “just,” I mean “I watched it in weekend-shaped chunks over the course of about eight weeks, skipped most of the filler, and got caught up a few months ago”. But it seemed like there were more than a few fans around, so I figured I’d start a thread. I won’t box spoilers, but my description is fairly detailed in places: if you aren’t caught up, I wouldn’t recommend reading on. ^^

In any event, I went in functionally blind: I had heard that there was a show called Naruto, and that it involved ninjas in some capacity, but that was where my familiarity ended before I began watching. In general I could do without a lot of elements of the pre-timeleap, but the bad parts never stood out; most of the things I found problematic were to be expected in a show aimed at Japanese middleschoolers, who I’m assuming are the main demographic of the show: the DBZ-esque powerup sequences that make the show look like a series of 20-minute long bowel movements, the characters’ propensity to yell the name of their special attacks at the top of their lungs, their melodramatic reactions to everything (an evil guy is being evil? I rage!), and so forth. That having been mentioned and ignored, however, I generally liked the rest!

Especially considering that it’s targeted at kids I liked the show’s early attempts at portraying the moral ambiguity and general ambivalence with which the adult ninjas seemed to view their professions, and showing how Naruto and his classmates slowly began accepting that sort of attitude as part of the lifestyle.

The few (and I felt there really were only a few) overarching themes and plots aside, I thought that Naruto was, in it’s ideal environment, a character study that used action scenes (and since this is an unabashedly shounen anime, “action scene” and “plot” are interchangeable) to show off said characters. Unfortunately, my natural reaction to the show really took away from the early section: after only a few episodes I found that I honestly didn’t care about Sasuke: he was gloomy, bitchy, and I somehow found that his issues (which mainly seemed to involve angst over his insane brother and later his quickly-growing inferiority complex) weren’t nearly as interesting as Naruto’s. I thought that this was the case for everyone until I started talking with other fans, and discovered that a large portion of viewers really enjoyed Sasuke and the Sasuke/Naruto dynamic.

Also, it may just be me, but I simply did not see that particular relationship until the very end of the Sasuke Retrieval Arc; to me the show was always about Team 7 as a whole, and how they grew as a result of their work… but the only real chemistry I ever saw between Sasuke and Naruto was the aforementioned inferiority complex. The beginning of the Retrieval Arc made a lot of sense to me: Sasuke was a member of the team, and important to Sakura, and it was on the strength of those two points that Naruto and the hastily-assembled group went off. With that in mind the arc was quite enjoyable, but the big Naruto/Sasuke fight just lacked a lot of impact, since I didn’t really care about (nor did I even predict) the NarutoAngst that apparently came as a result of Sasuke’s departure.

Anyway, Sasuke aside, I really liked Sakura as she was portrayed in the first few episodes: she put on the show of being the epitome of a popular 12 year old girl by trying to act shy, quiet, and extremely girly in public, but through her frequent inner monologues and her behavior in the bulk of the series, she betrayed herself as being, if not a tomboy, a fairly normal adolescent. That set her “I’m going to stop being girly and try hard” revelation up to come across pretty well, and the fact that it was delivered in the format of an episode-long brawl only helped her case. That having been said, though, I think that her character actually started to suffer right around that point; the writers had a good grip on her early character, and they introduced the transition from socialite to badass ninja quite well, but it felt like they never knew how to write her as her character evolved, which led to her becoming increasingly two-dimensional as the series went on.

Naruto himself also seemed to degrade over time, but in his case it may have just been my patience: early on, his character seemed to be fairly sympathetic: he was an ordinary, fairly obnoxious 12-year-old whose natural, extremely strong potential was never harnessed because the village shunned him. That early “Obnoxious but strong” piece was appealing, especially when the show’s setting frequently contrasted Naruto’s rather odd personality with the sulky, quiet, and angsty behavior that we came to expect from “average” super-ninjas. Unfortunately, the overwhelming power and ability that let Naruto get away with being immature to begin with only hurt him as the show went on: I liked the “Immature ninja grows up to be great guy” story that his origin seemed to hint at, but it seemed like, with few exceptions, his powers gave him an excuse to slack off and continue being an immature arsetoad. I got increasingly tired of watching him get away with doing stupid sh*t, and as the show went on I began to care about him much less.

Mind you, there are definite exceptions to my portrayal, and I think they represent some of the best parts of his stories: his efforts (and their results on) the Chunin exam arc was the biggest example in my mind, and in general I think the Chunin arc served as a kind of high point for the show. Finally, I think the Let’s Get Tsunade arc (I honestly have no idea what that one is called) was the high point in the series for Naruto. He got to show off a (marginally) increased level of maturity when he interacted with Tsunade, he got to show off the first 80-some episodes’ worth of training by fighting a giant snake, and he to borrow from Kevin Smith he got to hang out with a really freaky dude who he’ll be able to tell stories about for the rest of his life. (Jiraiya, obviously.)

…but it all went downhill from there, and the rest of Naruto’s life seems to have been a series of bland situations that share a single set of stage directions: get angry, lose your temper, and run in swinging. Heck, that’s a paraphrase from the show. I guess that all in all, my problem isn’t with Naruto as much as it is with the writers’ inability to either take his character somewhere interesting or frame him in a way that made his personality fun to watch, instead of boring.

I acknowledge that my opinion is highly subjective and extremely hypercritical (it’s a kids’ show, fer cryin’ out loud), but there you have it. My qualms aside, however, I’m still watching it and largely enjoying each episode, so I think they’ve done more good than bad. :slight_smile:

Oh yes, and let me take a parting shot at Naruto: Shippuden’s slooooow pacing: I know they don’t want to use up all of the manga story too quickly, but did they really need to spend an entire twenty-minute episode on taking off a hat? (Literally. I’m pretty sure it took the puppet guy a full twenty minutes just to take his damn hood off.)

I liked it. I’m not a big fan of anime and expected to be annoyed by it and give up after a few episodes (I think this is the only anime series I’ve tried to watch), but it’s my gf’s favorite show so I gave it a try. Also key was the fact that I watched it on my computer so I could easily fast forward though, as each 25 minute episode is 5 minutes of theme song, 15 minutes of flashbacks and five minutes of actual new plot development. And the flashbacks are usually the same flashbacks they used in the previous five episodes, so you’ve already seen them several times before

But anyways, despite all that, I really liked it, mainly for the reason you mentioned, its basically a series of character studies with fighting. And not just for the main characters, I liked how each minor character had a fairly elaborate (and usually depressing) backstory that worked into both the current plot and the overarching themes of the series.

Well, I liked the retrieval arch (I could dig the Naruto/Sauske relationship as it seemed somewhat similar to the love/hate relationship I have with my rather competitive sibilings, also it had the coolest battles of the series), even though it was really reminisent of the Star Wars prequels. But after that I skipped ahead to Shippuden on the advice of several people. Apparently that’s where the Magna stopped so the series plot just treads water at that point until Shippuden. Indeed I could sort of see that in the few episodes I watched after that point, it looks like it just falls into a loop of more or less self-contained missions, and so far the new series hasn’t referenced anything that I feel like I missed from the original.

To be clear, I liked the retrieval arc too… but when it got to Naruto and Sasuke’s big fight, since I hadn’t picked up on their dynamic in the first half of the series I found myself feeling as if I were missing the punchline.

As for Shippuden, I think part of the problem is that you’re (sometimes quite literally) getting a page or two of manga distilled into a twenty-minute long episode. The reason that almost half of the original Naruto episodes were non-canon filler was due to the anime plot catching up with the manga plot. This does happen from time to time, and it’s particularly tough on the writers of shows like Naruto that follow the manga pretty closely. A few high-profile manga-derivatives have crashed and burned when the TV writers deviated from the original comic (X probably being the best example) and so, knowing that they had a good thing going, rather than coming up with new plot the Naruto writers stopped the story at a good place for an intermission, told the viewers what was up, and proceeded to dish out a bunch of pointless fillers that were intercut with one really, really funny episode. (number 192, if anyone was curious. There may be others, but I’ve only watched five or six of the filler episodes.)

Anyway, the start of Naruto: Shippuden marked the writers’ return to the manga plot, and the plot is progressing so slowly that it feels as if they’re terrified of catching up again. There IS plot there, the TV show just isn’t getting to it.

This is pure conjecture on my part, but I think another reason for the unusually heavy linearity is unfamiliarity with the content: the manga provided a template, but if you compare the credits in Naruto, Naruto: Shippuden, and Bleach (an unrelated manga/anime whose TV adaptation is produced by the same studio that does Naruto), you’ll notice that a good chunk of the people who wrote the original Naruto episodes were transfered to work on Bleach which, being significantly newer and (until it ran out of manga and installed an unspeakably terrible filler arc) in possession of actual plot, seems to have been given preference. If my thirty seconds of detectiving (or rather my thirty seconds of listening to someone else who noticed this, and then confirming it myself) is accurate, it could be the case that the new writers are erring towards the safe side by faithfully reproducing earlier character traits, rather than making an effort to smoothly build the personalities of various characters.

Oh, and for the record? Rebellious writers or not, I really wish that Shippuden would knock it off with the recaps. Flashing back to last episode, or two episodes ago, or two minutes ago is bad enough, but you shouldn’t have to explain what just happened three times a minute. I may be overemphasizing the reality of the situation but I simply can’t overstate how much this annoys me. The silly attack names and characters’ habits of narrating their tactics in the middle of a fight make sense considering the show’s model of fighting as exposition, but the sheer oddity of the constant recaps lend the dialogue a synthetic, made-for-TV feel that it didn’t used to have. The recent episodes keep making me wonder if I’m watching an Abbot and Costello routine and missing the joke.

Sakura: I have to be careful, [the bad guy] has poisonous weapons.
Chiyo: “Watch out Sakura, he probably poisoned his weapons!”
Sakura: If his weapons are poisoned I can’t let myself get hit.
Sakura: gets hit
Sakura: Oh drat, poison!
Bad guy: Bwahaha, you’ve been poisoned by my poisonous weapons!
Chiyo: * Oh no, he poisons his weapons! Sakura was hit by one, which means she must’ve been poisoned!*
Sakura: * Darn, I got hit by one of his poisonous weapons and now I’m poisoned !*
Bad guy: “Heehee, do you feel the poison working through your body yet?”
<Review entire scene via flashback>

Aw, man! Finally, a thread about Naruto and I don’t have time to write even half of what I want to.

I see that some of you have seen the fillers. Yeah, they’re lame.

OK, I’m posting again, now with a little more time.

I agree with Omi no Kami regarding Sasuke. He is kind of a whiny asshole. Yeah, we know it’s because he had a terrible childhood, but then again, so did half the village. At least he had parents for awhile, unlike Naruto, who was orphaned the day he was born and (so far) doesn’t even know his parents’ names.

One theme I’ve noticed running throughout the series is unrequited love. Many of the characters are in love with someone who doesn’t love them, or considers them “just a friend.” The OP mentioned Sakura’s love for Sasuke, who loves only himself. Naruto is in love with Sakura, but she finds him annoying, and only after the timeskip does she show the slightest interest in him. Hinata, in turn, is in love with Naruto, and finds in him the inspiration she needs to become a better ninja. I could go on for ages, but it already makes the show/manga sound like a soap opera.

As far as the anime fillers, I said in my earlier post that they were lame. There are a few episodes that are OK, but the majority are rather lame. There were a couple of filler episodes that expanded on Hinata’s character, and her attempts to become stronger, which Naruto notices, to her delight. One fo my favorite scenes comes from a filler episode in which Naruto joins Team 8 on a misssion. One night, Hinata gets up in the middle of the night to practice a new technique under a waterfall, and Naruto watches her, entranced, unaware that it’s her. I thought it was animated so beautifully. Too bad it’s not canon, 'cause it wasn’t in the manga.

Naruto was on Cartoon Network when I was staying at a Residence Inn. The voice acting made me laugh out loud a couple of times, it was pretty corny to me. I don’t think I am the intended audience for this show (Buffy also falls under this category).

Yea, you know, the increasingly central Sakura/Naruto dynamic is really one of my favorite elements of Shippuden, partially because it’s been so well-implemented. Maturity as an accessory to responsibility has been an ongoing theme with Sakura, and I always interpreted her Shippuden behavior as being more compassion than anything: Naruto’s reaction when he apologized to her for not bringing Sasuke back tipped her off to the fact that he cared for her, and it seems like as a direct result of that, regardless of her own feelings she’s been making an effort to treat him kindly. I know that, being afraid of messing up a good thing, it’s unlikely that the writers will ever have two characters actually up and admit their feelings, but since as you’ve said unrequited love is a common theme, I always secretly suspected that Naruto/Sakura and Sakura/Sasuke, being early relationships, were doomed from the start. My theory is that eventually Naruto will end up with Hinata: her inability to have a normal conversation with Naruto has always been emphasized as the biggest barrier to their relationship, and since Hinata’s theme seems to be “Change yourself,” I can’t think of any other (in theory) acceptable resolution than for her to finally get the balls to confess to him.

In the same way, I think that Sakura is really, ultimately doomed to stick with Lee. I don’t know if he’s still interested, but he was so fervently devoted to her when they were kids, I’m assuming that Sakura’s whole “Maturity gives you a new viewpoint” schtick will end with her recognizing that Sasuke is a sociopathic nitwit and, more to the point, finding value in Lee’s sincerity.

…then again, I kind of fear for anybody who ends up with Lee, because in twenty or thirty years they’ll essentially be in a relationship with a second Guy. :smiley:

If it was on cartoon network, I’m assuming the voices were in English? The whole sub/dub debate has been done to death, but you can rest assured that, while the plot itself might be corny at times, the Japanese voice acting is likely to be ten times better than the English.

Hey! You just predicted same couples I did! Although I wouldn’t exactly describe Sakura as “doomed” to end up with Lee, because, to me, he’s the best choice for her. He worships the ground she walks on, and promised to protect her with his life. She, in turn, began to treat him better after the Chuunin exams, bringing him flowers at the hospital even when he was unconscious and couldn’t appreciate it. And, yes, he still likes her in Shippuden; in fact, one of the episodes had a little segment at the end called “Rivals for Love!” in which Naruto and Lee each made his case for why he should be with Sakura. Then again, the fact Lee’s like Guy Jr… :eek: (and I have my own theory about that as well)

Also, if Sakura ends up with Lee, I hope their kids take after her. :smiley:

To Be Fair:

The previous barrage of knifes weren’t poisoned, just plentiful to the point of being ridiculous.
Both Sakura and Chiyo were poison masters: Sakura in finding antidotes and Chiyo in creating them. The villain(Chiyo’s grandson)'s poison was particularly virulent, so much so that Sakura’s antidote would only be effective for a few minutes without further doses. Sakura only had two doses left. It was a classic dilemma: How to defend and attack at the same time. Since it is/was difficult to defend against the constant barrage of knives, Sakura went from a defensive mode to a offensive mode, leaving her open to being wounded.

Besides, a lot of the dialog was actually internal conversations heard so that the audience can understand the character’s motivation. In the above dialog, it showed that Sakura was not just blindly trying to defend against the knives but to try to stop them too. It showed Chiyo’s change form disdain for the Konoho ninjas to respect and admiration. It also showed Sassori’s overconfidence in thinking they couldn’t have created an antidote to his poison. Because Sakura did not fall prey to the poison’s effects, she able to destroy the strongest puppet Sassori had: The Third Kazekage.
:smack:

I’ve been re-watching the Chunin Exam Arc, and I just noticed something kind of weird:

After the Tigerland ripoff where they sent a bunch of 12 year olds out to the jungle to kill each other, Sakura and her buddy Ino got into a brawl as part of the weedout process. During the course of the fight, it was established that Ino’s possession technique doesn’t work on Sakura, since Sakura is apparently schizophrenic. However, days earlier Ino used the same technique and managed to easily control Sakura long enough to steal her answers during the written exam. Are we supposed to assume that Sakura’s ability to resist stemmed from the whole “I’m psyched about beating the friend with whom I have an ambiguous relationship that’s jam-packed with lesbian overtones to a pulp, and thus my emotions BURN!” deal, or what?

[spoiler]Yeah, but recall that in the Chuunin section, Naruto was yelling at her to not give up after working so hard. That was what triggered her pushing Ino out. One interesting thing to note is that after that episode, you rarely if ever see Inner Sakura, and she starts acting like her true self.

Why it was translated as “How can there be two of you?” is beyond me.[/spoiler]

On that note, when I first started reading the manga in Shonen Jump, there was an interview with the author where he said that the Inner Sakura idea came from his belief that teen aged girls have two selves–the one they show and the one they hide. It’s not really a seperate personality, but a contrast of how she feels she should act and how she really feels.

I do like how she’s grown in Shippuden. Feeling useless was a recurring theme for her, and obviously that’s not the case anymore. She can actually fight!

As far as the translation goes, I haven’t seen enough to saw how accurate it is (I’ve only seen more than a couple episodes because my husband is a fan) but it’s very hit or miss on the voices. Some are so perfect that it’s almost like watching the Japanese again (Gai), while others make me want to strangle the casting director (Kakashi), with a lot falling in between.

[spoiler]To be fair to the translators, I just referenced that scene and Ino says something really weird. Unless I’m mis-hearing it, the word she uses for “mind” is “sesshin,” which I understand can either mean “Gathered mind” or refer to a type of zen practice. Since Naruto tends to habitually murder Northeast Asian philosophy in search of cool-sounding names that kids will have probably vaguely heard, but not be overwhelmingly familiar with, I’m guessing they used it to sound cool. (Case in point, I still grimace whenever they use ‘chakra’.)

Either way though, Ino seems to be saying “For there to be two ‘gathered minds’ (in one person), what are you??”. The rest is pretty straightforward, although though Ino uses a cool idiom by literally asking Sakura “What kind of thing are you?,” conveying how disquieted she is by the turn of events. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]I really like 90% of post-timeleap Sakura (case in point, Shippuden episode 26), but I hate how they’ve made her into Mini-Tsunade. The thing is, she already had a personality! Her rants against young Naruto were really, really funny, and while it seemed like they generally served to exemplify her inner and outer behavior, it felt like the writers didn’t know where to take her after she grew out of that phase so they just used bits of Tsunade to fill in the gaps, like so much frog DNA in a dinosaur theme park.

…huh, now I kind of feel stupid because I only just now realized how much of an effect pre-timeleap Naruto had on her: from what I can recall, for 99% of the series she was Outer Sakura with Sasuke and Inner Sakura with Naruto. She didn’t get to see Sasuke much between her big fight with Ino and his little Darth Vader moment, so I’m not sure if this was ever something that the writers consciously planned, but if it was it was pretty neat.

It does have the drawback of throwing more fuel on the “Sakura bones Naruto” theory, which does kind of annoy me: at this point, I simply can’t figure out how they could pair those two up without making the thing a cliche-ridden trainwreck, but who knows.

Well, alright, I do: considering how super-popular Japanese animation has tended to unfold in the last 5-7 years, they’ll probably try to keep the franchise going for as long as possible without changing a thing, such that they don’t risk alienating their fanbase. But at the very least I’m hoping that they end with a comprehensive wrap up. And I’m all for Hinata/Naruto and Shikamaru/Temari: both couples are just far, far too sweet not to use.

(even now, I can just imagine the writers, sitting around giggling as they write the final episode to transition from the big fight to “Ten years later, Naruto and Hinata had five kids that they sent to ninja school. Okaybythanksforyourmoneysuckers!” :)) [/spoiler]

Funny, I usually don’t have to actually hear Kakashi speak before I’m tempted to strangle him. :wink:

Since at this point I think we’re the only ones reading, I’m going to dispense with the spoiler boxes. The genin of Team Seven each resemble one of the Sannin, and I think it’s easy to figure out who resembles who. I don’t really think of the new Sakura as a mini-Tsunade, but her own maturing. She just had some of the same personality traits to begin with. The same holds true of the other two pairs as well.

:o
Of course the manga treats the Shikamaru/Temari relationship at bit differently. :eek:

How? I haven’t read that part. I watched the anime first before I started reading the manga scan/translations, around the part when the two teams go look for Sasuke and Jiraiya and Tsunade reveal some important information about Naruto’s past.