It would piss me off too but that’s why I don’t lend friends money. Sure, I’ll give money sometimes (and I have given away a fair amount during the pandemic) but I won’t lend money.
There’s only one way this might be okay and I doubt it applies but I’ll relay a story about a friend from a long time ago. My friend bought a used car from his parents. He needed a decent car and they were going to trade it in for a song on a new car. Everybody seemed happy with the arrangement. There was no interest and no note but he said he’d pay them back as soon as he could. In fact, he paid hundreds of dollars every month to whittle it down. But each week at dinner with his parents, his mother would pressure him about every nickel he spent in the meantime. She asked why he didn’t cancel his cable and internet. She asked why he needed a cell phone (which were everyday items even then). She asked why he bought a sandwich with his coworkers when he could have packed a lunch. I shudder to think what she would have thought about him spending any money dating while the loan was outstanding. He felt he was paying them back as quickly as they could reasonably expect. To hear my friend tell it, his mother thought the loan meant she should have veto power over everything he spent.
From what I can tell, the pressure campaign worked because he paid the loan back quickly and he vowed to never borrow another dollar from his parents again. It did strain their relationship in the meantime though. Could your situation be a little like this from your borrower’s perspective?
When you lend something, they should think of it like something they owe you, and you should think of it like something you gave them. If they return it/pay it back, then great! Free windfall! And if they don’t, then great! You gave a gift! You’re happy either way.
If you can’t help but think of things lent as things owed, then don’t lend people things. If you’re like that, then you’re only happy if they pay you back promptly (and live like a starving pauper until they do, apparently).
I don’t agree with this (certainly not for large sums of money.)
I lent a good friend £3,000 once (about $4,000.)
He was happy to sign a note.
I knew he would pay me back when he could and no, he didn’t have to ‘live like a starving pauper’ until he did.
He paid me back and was jolly grateful. I was happy to save him interest rates on a loan. Win - win.
Would you have been infuriated had he not paid you back…ever?
I mean, I get the whole ‘no interest loan’ thing. I loaned a friend $20000 three years ago. He hasn’t paid it back - he’s paying off other debts and such from his divorce, and, yes, supplementing his ever-more-impressive lego collection. I could harp at him about it, but it wouldn’t make me happy, wouldn’t make him happy, and I wouldn’t be able to chat with him about the lego collection. What’s the fun in that?
Does anyone know if the online money transfer services have a way to send money to someone but mark it as a loan? I have a vague recollection of hearing that Venmo has a way to send money to someone and have it show up as a debt. It’s not like a real bank loan or anything. It’s more just a reminder that one person owes money to another person. I can’t really remember the details since I don’t use those services.
I don’t lend friends money. I might, on occasion, give them money. If they then later choose to give it back, that’s their business.
If I’m not willing to give money, I won’t lend it, either. I am not in the moneylending business, and even if I were, I don’t think I would want to do business with friends.
I do not subscribe to the notion that if somebody owes you money, they’re subsequently not allowed to spend money on anything else until they pay you back.
That said, unless we know more details it’s hard to say whether you’re justified in feeling pissed or not. Did he promise to repay you by a specific date and reneged? What was the value of his gift to the ladyfriend compared to the amount owed? Does he have a history of poor financial decisions?
Could be he truly plans to pay you back, but you are not on the same page regarding the urgency to do so. Could be he’s trying to skate. No point in advising you about what you should have done. Maybe just have a frank talk with him now about when you can expect the money, without being judgmental.
A lot depends on the situation. If a colleague needed to borrow $20 I could do that. When I was a poor college student though, $20 was a lot of money.
If the loan was under false pretenses, telling OP it was for groceries and it was really for something else, that’s not cool. But if the borrower didn’t specify and the lender didn’t ask, I think it’s up for grabs. Likewise, the terms…the borrower may truly intend to pay it back but be in less of a hurry than the lender.
I would question the sustainability of the model. Maybe he’ll decide to spend more on this woman…but he could be running a tab with several friends. If so, OP could be waiting even longer for repayment.
This is one of those adulty things that needs clarification and discussion beforehand.
Not on thread topic, but since you asked: I live in Europe and have traveled all over. Belgium is famous for its chocolate, yes, but you can find good chocolate everywhere. I’m especially partial to the fine chocolate in Spain.
Wow! This spurred some interest. Thanks all. I’m new here, primarily a lurker, but you make me laugh and think. Thank you.
He didn’t tell me his intentions. He just said he needed the money and then we were talking a few days later and he told me he had bought the fancy stuff for the lady. I’m wondering if a PayPal request isn’t the way to go, or perhaps a visit from a hit man.
I lent a good friend £3,000 once (about $4,000.)
He was happy to sign a note.
I knew he would pay me back when he could and no, he didn’t have to ‘ live like a starving pauper ’ until he did.
He paid me back and was jolly grateful. I was happy to save him interest rates on a loan. Win - win.
I would have been very disappointed - especially if he had thrown money around instead of repaying me.
But I felt very confident that I could trust him.
His views on debt are the same as mine:
think carefully before getting into debt
plan how you are going to get out of debt
don’t buy luxuries until you can afford them.
Has he paid back any of it?
What will you do if he asks to borrow another $20,000?
Heh, that brings back memories. In the late 90s I was complaining to a friend about a client who had bounced a check and made no effort to make it good. The deadbeat was someone we both knew.
A few days later, another friend mentioned that he’d been asked by the first friend to join his group, who were going to “have a talk” with the deadbeat.
I made a quick phone call to stop things from going forward.
So apparently it wasn’t a ‘pay me back when you can’ loan, if there would come a time prior to “when you can” when you thought you were obligated to be repaid the money. And you subscribe to the “live like a pauper - no luxuries until it’s repaid” style of moneylending after all.
That’s your choice, of course.
He has not paid back any of it - I told him that if he’s going to repay it at all I’d prefer it all at once, rather than everybody having to track where in the repayment schedule he is now.
And he subsequently asked to borrow another $2,000 to deal with an emergency, tiding him over until he could liquidate some assets to cover it. I lent it to him. He paid it back (in a lump sum) when the money finally freed up. It took a few months longer than he expected, but I did not pester him, feel angry, or require him to eschew luxuries in the meantime.
(And to be entirely accurate, that first $20,000 wasn’t his request; it was my idea. He needed it, but would have been insane to ask for that much.)
You’re so upset about this that you won’t even consider having him return the money to you in person?
I wonder which message board he’s posting on to ask for advice about dealing with a friend who’s acting disturbingly unhinged over a small personal loan.
I’m sorry if I didn’t make myself clear.
I knew my friend would repay me when it was convenient for him. I set no time limit - but I didn’t expect him to ask for any more loans.
I knew that his lifestyle included ‘planning how to get out of debt’ - usually at a steady pace.
There is a massive difference between ‘planning how to get out of debt’ and ‘living like a pauper’.
If you do a budget and include some savings in it (either for a luxury or to repay a debt), then you can usually live perfectly comfortably.
If you don’t budget and keep finding you are short of money every month, then you should adjust your lifestyle, rather than borrow more and more money.
I remember when I was earning good money as a computer programmer.
I ate out at least once a week and took a pleasant annual holiday (usually to a European chess tournament. )
However I was also saving up for a house (and earning good interest in my savings.)
I had a credit card, but always paid it off in full each month.
A fellow programmer asked how many credit cards I had. I told him just one and he snorted!
He told me:
he had an expensive car, gambled regularly, bought expensive suits and jewellery
to finance this, he had ‘maxed out’ his first credit card (I found out @ 27% )
to finance the interest on first card, he had ‘maxed out’ a second card
to pay the interest on the first two cards, he used a third card
He was honestly astounded that I didn’t want to live like him.
We keep 2 cards, it is good to have a backup and saved us once on vacation.
We also make sure we pay full every month.
I remember interest on savings, now it is a joke of course. But I also remember double digit mortgage rates, so I would rather have crappy interest on savings with really low mortgage rates.
There’s only one type of loan - the kind with a schedule and an enforceable contract.
Everything else is a gift with varying degrees of expected reciprocity. Giving (or loaning) somebody money doesn’t grant you magical oversight privileges of their spending. It doesn’t matter if they’re buying flowers and chocolates - it doesn’t matter if they’re buying premium ketchup instead of the store brand. You gave that money away and it isn’t yours anymore. You’ll drive yourself nuts keeping a mental inventory of what they’re spending money on.
I POSTED THIS IN THE WRONG THREAD AND NOW IT WON’T LET ME POST IT AGAIN. LET’S TRY THIS TO FILL UP SOME SPACE AND TRICK DISCOBOT.
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