So I'm Finally Watching Buffy... [Progressive unboxed spoilers]

[EllisDee]

I was a big fan of the final battle against Adam, but most fans hate Adam and think it was stupid. Glad to see you share some of my outlier tastes; that might mean you’ll really love season 6 Buffy.

Season 5 Buffy is unanimously viewed as all kinds of awesome, so you’re in for a treat.

I think Angel is just a better show by virtue of being more about grownups. In Buffy, the closest they come to being grownups is when they come out and say that they’re grownups with grownup responsibilities, which is itself a childish thing to do. In Angel, they just are grownups. Sort of like how any mention of class is a sign of not having class, any mention of maturity is a sign of immaturity.

Logo is just about to the end of season 7 Buffy, and yeah, it’s not a great season. It does drag, there aren’t enough sets, and there aren’t enough monsters of the week. (Which is why there aren’t enough sets.) Compared to other Buffy, it feels claustrophobic, muted, and devoid of humor. Still pretty goood, though.

One thing I’m having fun with is keeping in mind what’s happening on Angel while watching season 7. The shit is hitting the fan in the worst way for both shows. It’s funny because watching it (or Angel S4) I’ll be thinking that they should really be calling each other for help, but both situations are worse than each other. Totally nuts. Early 2003 was a bad time to live in Whedonverse California. heh.

@olivesmarch4th

I still don’t particularly care for Riley. He’s every teenage girl’s fantasy-in other words, incredibly boring.
[…]
Dawn, WTF, WTF, WTF? Don’t even tell me, I don’t even want to know if she’s a permanent character or just in for a few episodes. I’d like to see how this unfolds. But seriously, WTF?!!!
[…]
…Wolfram and Heart…

Agreed on Riley. It’s mostly by design, but still. Even his quips are forced, like that stupid line about missing her name (or whatever) “in all the concussion,” which the writers were so proud of they included it in like 3 episodes’ “previously on…” recaps. Ugh. He gets a little better in season 5, but everything with and about Riley feels forced, both in the show and from a meta-perspective about the show.

Not giving anything away about Dawn the character, the actress who played her, Michelle Trachtenberg, was on a soap opera with Sarah Michelle Gellar. Sarah’s recommendation helped her get the role of Dawn.

It’s “Wolfram and Hart”, not “Heart.” Like the name as opposed to the organ.

[Knorf]

@EllisDee

It’s “Wolfram and Hart”, not “Heart.” Like the name as opposed to the organ.

Actually, like the ruminant mammal as opposed to the organ.

As in, The Wolf, The Ram, and The Hart.

[Kyla]

I started watching Buffy in S4 (this was before it was in reruns anywhere; I eventually did catch the first three seasons on FX), and I missed a few episodes here and there. When Dawn showed up for the first time, I had a moment of absolute confusion. Was it possible that Buffy had had this sister the entire time, and I’d just never seen her before? It took me awhile to determine that no, Dawn really had just magically appeared one day.

Season 7 does have a couple of bright spots: Conversations with Dead People and Storyteller are two of my favorite episodes of the entire run.

[silenus]

@olivesmarch4th

Buffy v. Dracula is a hilarious premise in the first place, but I like how they used it to serve the bigger picture. Not only do we have Buffy exploring her slayer-identity, but it sounds like Xander’s about to experience some changes as well.

Dracula said something to her that sounded very familiar, but I can’t remember if it was repeated from an earlier episode of Angel or an earlier episode of Buffy:

‘‘You think you know who you are, what is to come, but you’ve only just begun.’’ (something like that.) Ominous.

And, by the way, the fighting choreography looks a LOT slicker in Season 5 so far. I’m kind of a martial arts/combat enthusiast and there are some impressive fight scenes in the Dracula ep.

About Dracula in the Whedonverse: (Spoilers for Season 8 - The Comics)

[spoiler] Xander and Drac have some “guy-time,” and bond. When some Japanese vamps steal the Scythe from Buffy by using some tricks they stole from Dracula, the Scooby Gang and Dracula head to Japan for some payback. Drac gets off the best lines of the whole arc -

Bad Vamp: Just like an old man. Needs his cane to stand. He doesn’t know what to do with himself now that he’s an ordinary vampire again. Like the rest of us.

Drac (holding a sword): My boy, I was never an ordinary vampire. (slices off vamps hand) Or did you forget who I used to be? (slices off vamps leg) I killed more men than God’s plagues combined. And that was before I started eating people for fun. (slices another hand off) The fields of Europe used to stream with the blood of my enemies. Trust me…the vampire is the least of your concerns. It’s the old man you need to worry about." [/spoiler]

[EllisDee]

@Knorf

Actually, like the ruminant mammal as opposed to the organ.

Yes, of course I know this, having watched the show. I was trying not to spoil her for the Pylea trip, so I chose my words carefully.

[Waffle_Decider]

@olivesmarch4th

Dracula said something to her that sounded very familiar, but I can’t remember if it was repeated from an earlier episode of Angel or an earlier episode of Buffy:

‘‘You think you know who you are, what is to come, but you’ve only just begun.’’ (something like that.) Ominous.

That’s what Tara (presumably speaking for the spirit of the first slayer) told Buffy in her dream sequence in Restless.

I love Real Me. The breakfast scene in the beginning where Dawn used up all the milk and Buffy giving her the stare of death just cracked me up every time. This episode reminded me a lot about my relationship with my older sister.

[gonzoron]

@olivesmarch4th

It could be just Angel-related angst, but I feel like no mortal guy can be Buffy’s equal. Riley just looks kind of ridiculous and impotent at her side.

Yup, as mentioned, I think that’s the point, and from that perspective, I think he works as a character. I realize that’s a minority opinion, though.

Restless was the coolest of the cool. I loved it. Great direction, and each dream sequence seemed true to the character. I am particularly fond of the cheese guy. I think one of my favorite episodes of the series.

And now that you’ve seen the start of S5, you can already appreciate some of the foreshadowing. For example, Tara: "“Be back before Dawn”.

Believe it or not, the foreshadowing goes back even further: From This Year’s Girl…
Buffy: “I wish I could stay, but…”
Faith: “Oh, you have to go.”
Buffy: “That’s just what…”
Faith: “Little sis coming. I know.”
Buffy: “So much to do before she gets here.”

And then… Real Me. Dawn, WTF, WTF, WTF? Don’t even tell me, I don’t even want to know if she’s a permanent character or just in for a few episodes. I’d like to see how this unfolds. But seriously, WTF?!!!

Yup, my 2nd favorite part of S5 The Body, of course is this WTF introduction of Dawn. I will say no more, but it was total genius. (I love a lot of the moments in S5, but I’m one of the few who didn’t like the overall story arc at all. )

I love Angel. I love Angel, and Wesley, and Cordelia, I love them forever. The growth of these three characters seems really organic to me, and it’s not something you would have expected out of either Wesley or Cordelia when they first popped up in Buffy.

Bingo. And you’re only 1/5 of the way through.

Angel remarks under his breath, ‘‘I thought it was funny.’’

Yeah, I love that for all his angst and guilt, etc. Angel can just be a goofball sometimes.

Cordelia’s vision/torment situation seemed crucial to the development of her character; empathy is something Cordey has generally lacked – now she’s in a situation where she has no choice but to feel the pain of others. This must change her perspective.

Very good point. There’s a spoiler conversation upthread regarding Cordy’s development you might want to read after Angel S4 or so. I missed this point when defending her development as organic and believable. Please pretend I said it.

[Alessan]

@gonzoron

Yeah, I love that for all his angst and guilt, etc. Angel can just be a goofball sometimes.

I’ve come to the realization that Angel’s deep, dark secret is that under the superpowers, curses and billowing coats, he’s essentially a dork.

[Bridget_Burke]

@Alessan

I’ve come to the realization that Angel’s deep, dark secret is that under the superpowers, curses and billowing coats, he’s essentially a dork.

Barry Manilow!

[silenus]

Which explains why he was so bloody-thirsty and terrible as a vampire. All that repressed dorkness, suddenly unleashed without conscience or sense of embarrassment.

[Waffle_Decider]

I think you’ve got something there. Spike was also a big dork before becoming a vampire.

[WhyNot]

Heh. Perhaps there are “dorklines” in the Vampire lineages. One clan prone to choosing dorks, another jocks…would be a fun idea to play with!

[Mahaloth]

Here we go again!

My wife and I just watched the pilot and are about to go through Buffy(and inevitably Angel) for the…5th time, I’m guessing?

She always talks me into it and I always am glad we’re going through it.

[EllisDee]

Along those lines, Logo just showed the S7 finale, so they should be starting over from S1 next week if anyone else wants to jump in from the beginning.That red axe thing is every bit as stupid looking now as when it first aired. Ugh.

[silenus]

You mean the Scythe?

Yeah, that was just stupid.

[Waffle_Decider]

I did get a chuckle out of the line

So it’s true. Scythe matters.

Coming from Willow no less.

I’m immature…

[bouv]

Season 7 could have been so much better.

[spoiler]The first half of the season is fine, and Conversations with Dead People is a great episode all around. But the Slayerettes…ugh. Kennedy especially…I didn’t get the hate for her when I first watched season 7, but I was only 20 and was distracted by the “ooh, a hot lesbian lover for Willow! Woo!” to not notice the suck.
Season 7 even gets some more interesting backstory for The Slayer. With Caleb getting pissed that the power “was for her and her alone” (something like that,) indicating he wanted The Slayer’s power but couldn’t have it. And I forget which episode it is, but there’s one where Buffy finds a way to get more power, and the story of the original slayer is shown to us through shadows…really cool, and to find out that The Slayer’s power came originally from a demon was a nice little twist. And then when Giles and Anya go to the other dimension and talk with the eyeball monster, they find out The First is appearing now because Buffy came back from the dead.
I thought they were then going to go a route where they find out that The Slayer’s power is split, since there are two, and it got even more split when Buffy came back a second time. I then thought the series would end with Buffy finding a way to give all her power back to Faith, and she could retire as The Slayer, and the power would be all back in one vessel and The First would be stopped.

But nope…they decided, since The Slayer’s power is split a little, why not split it a LOT MORE and make every potential Slayer a real Slayer…WTF? Oh, that’s right, cause The Scythe has the power, or something…:rolleyes:

I can only imagine the horror caused the world over as thousands of little girls suddenly gained super strength. Sucks to be whoever was unlucky enough to be an older brother of one of them and thought her little 15 year-old girly punch wouldn’t hurt…[/spoiler]

[EllisDee]

[spoiler]Or to be the hapless vampire who has to track down the psycho slayer who as a child was tortured to insanity by a serial killer. You didn’t use your hands for anything, right?

I really liked the slayer origin twist, as you mentioned, because it was foreshadowed way back in the Dracula episode at least.[/spoiler]But yeah, I concur, The first half of S7 was quite good, but then it went off the rails there toward the end.

[John_DiFool]

Per bouv’s last post, I’ll just say that the canonical S8 comic books/graphic novels does indeed delve into exactly how horrific that is. But I did like the girl who was being bullied and turned the tables on her attacker, and the softball girl who was about to launch the pitch into orbit.

[twickster]

@John_DiFool

Per bouv’s last post, I’ll just say that the canonical S8 comic books/graphic novels does indeed delve into exactly how horrific that is. But I did like the girl who was being bullied and turned the tables on her attacker, and the softball girl who was about to launch the pitch into orbit.

The post was reported with the request that I add a spoiler box – since I don’t know this show, I wasn’t sure what I was spoilering. If what I did didn’t take care of it, let me know. People, when you put in these requests, please be specific about where the spoilers are.

Thanks.