[spoiler]I meant S8 because my understanding is AtF isn’t canonical like S8 is.
And how does Angel manage to lead Wolfram and Hart and be Twilight in the same twelve months? It has to be post-Not Fade Away [/spoiler]
Your understanding is correct.
I see no reason to not spoil that After the Fall is not canon, while Buffy Season 8 is, but my response involves spoilers for both series.
[spoiler]Isn’t it not canon even in the series itself? Doesn’t Angel undo everything that happened? Is there really any reason it could have not happened as stated, other than everyone remembering that they were in the hell dimension?
I also think they missed an opportunity, as AtF had a very good reason for Angel to have all the powers he has as Twilight.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]According to wiki: Buffyverse canon - Wikipedia, AtF is canon, though “After After the Fall became an ongoing series penned by various writers, the canonicity of later stories is somewhat nebulous without the explicit say-so of those involved or Whedon himself”
So I’m guessing that means that at least the whole time-bubble thing is canon, though the “Aftermath” may not be.
In any case, I hadn’t read far enough into S8 to know that Angel is Twilight (that’ll teach me to read spoiler boxes…) so I’m not sure how that fits in. (There better be a good explanation for that. makes no sense to me out of context).
[/spoiler]
It doesn’t make any sense in context either. Also, everybody assumed AtF was canon until that development in S8, and then it became clear that only one is canon, and that’s the one Joss is overseeing.
Sorry! I should have spoilered both series separately!
In that same vein, I’m going to include the wiki quote, since it doesn’t spoil anything, while reading gonzo’s spoiler would. Plus, it contradicts my previous post, and I don’t want people getting the wrong idea:
I’ll also point out that a more specific article can be found in the canon article in the Buffyverse wiki. The section is a short enough that I think it’s okay to quote (to avoid spoilers)
And now for the spoiler part, again for both series (starting from, say, issue #30 on for Season 8). I can’t separate them:
What specifically makes Twilight preclude AtF? It seems to me that Angel could get his extra powers after the events of AtF, even if it would have made more sense for it to have happened while in the Hell dimension to make up for him not being a vampire. Remember that AtF reset the timeline.
Okay, I’m back.
WARNING: **BUFFY SEASON 7 & AND ANGEL SEASON 4 SPOILERS BELOW
**
Long hiatus… 12 seasons of television is a lot to slag through no matter how good it is. We switched to Bones for a while. Grad school. Sr. Olives’ master’s thesis defense. Blah blah.
But now we’re back and we’re hooked all over again. 
We are at the tail end of Season 7 of Buffy and Season 4 of Angel. Ohhhh, the suspenders! More specifically, we have just completed
S7, ep. 18, ‘‘Dirty Girls.’’ FAITH is back! This makes me happy; I think she’s one of the most interesting characters. The scene where she busts out of jail is totally badass. Like she was just waiting for a good reason.
Parts of S7 have lagged, but I’m not getting the hate, really. There are some great episodes and while the story is a little unimaginative, it’s fun having some new characters. ‘‘Showtime’’ ‘‘The Killer in Me’’ ‘‘Storyteller’’ and ‘‘Lies My Parents Told Me’’ were all great episodes. I loved ‘‘Storyteller’’ because it added depth to a character while reminding us all what Buffy is best at – showing that actions have consequences. I wanted to punch Giles repeatedly in the face for agreeing to have Spike killed without Buffy’s consent. He’s been acting like kind of an asshole for the whole season. I just really want to know how it’s going to end.
But enough about Buffy, let’s talk about Angel and how wonderful Angel is. I did not love the first half of Season 4 (Cordy and Conor, barf), but immediately after that the show gets interesting again. I love when Whedon fucks with the audience, and I gotta admit I did not see ‘‘Awakening’’ coming at all. And as soon as Angelus appeared I was kicking myself for all the signs that made me twinge but didn’t register - him ripping out of the restraints right away, the cheesy dialog - god I love it. Haven’t had an ‘‘oh shit’’ moment like that since Buffy and Angel tricked Faith into thinking he was Angelus.
The pregnant Cordelia storyline is weird (though I think she looked pregnant since the beginning of the season, so wasn’t surprised) and I hate that smug stupid SOB Conor (I think most of the hate is just a product of his terrible haircut, though), but with all the complexities between Fred and Wesley and the Angel/Angelus/Faith faceoff I’ve been thoroughly entertained. I think the ‘‘Shiny Happy People’’ setup is interesting’ reminds me of the Twilight Zone. I just finished the episode ‘‘Sacrifice’’ where Angel steps through yet another portal into the realm of the freaky crab creatures. I love the freaky crab creatures and the funny way they talk.
All in all, I expected S7 of Buffy to be much worse than it actually is, and Angel S4 went from suck to awesome in the course of one episode (Oh, ‘‘Habeas Corpses’’? Epic.) I do have to say Angel is the superior show between the two. Maybe I’m just biased because it has more David Boreanaz.
Are you going to take on another show now that you’re finished with Buffy and Angel?
I didn’t finish yet! I still have both Season finales and then Angel Season 5 after this. Probably after that I will catch up to Bones. We’re also curious about Dexter, The Wire, and the X-Files (that’s right, I’ve never seen the X-Files. I was too much of a wimp when it first came out.) I love Netflix. The possibilities are endless.
Dexter is very good; I highly recommend it. I came to it by watching 3 seasons on DVD in a couple weeks and liking it so much I became a Showtime subscriber. Torrenting did good!
I’ve never seen The Wire, but it tops the list of Stuff White People Like. Okay, maybe it doesn’t top that list, but the linked article does ring true to me.
Ooooh! Do X-files!
And start a thread about it as you go through it. It’s really worth it. Not as great as Buffy, but a very, very good show.
I want to hear your thoughts as you go through it.
Bones gets… embarrassing. But you’ll keep watching, and you’ll take it with a side of self-loathing. Don’t say I didn’t warn you. I don’t like to tell people I’ve seen every episode.
Dexter is good, I’m going through it (for the first time) now, myself. I’m on season 1, episode ten or eleven.
No, it’s not because of a bias (though DB is super hot and I love him muchly) it’s because it is the superior show.
God I still miss that show so much. I can’t believe it’s been 6 years!
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Angel is eventually better than Buffy, which is amazing if you think about it.
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If you don’t do X-files, watch Supernatural. It reminds me of Buffy sometimes. It’s dramatic, but hilarious and is superior to X-files in many ways(though I loooooooove X-files too).
Willow’s reaction to that line in the song ripped my heart out and stomped on it. That was a moment of fine acting.
woohoo! more vicarious reliving of Buffy/Angel! Welcome back.
Remember, she went in voluntarily. She’s serving her time, atoning for her sins, and she could bust out anytime she wanted with her Slayer powers. But she doesn’t because she knows she deserves to be there. awesome.
Indeed, probably my favorite ep of the season. Vulcanologist. LOL.
Classic Whedon mix of comedy and tragedy.
Yeah, I thought so too. A really delightfully different feel than usual.
It’s really tough for me to choose. I think Angel became the more solid show. Buffy had higher highs and lower lows. And of course, it’s hard to say Angel’s better when it wouldn’t exist without buffy. But Angel just kept getting better and and better. Enjoy the end of S7/S4. Can’t wait to see what you think of Angel S5.
ANGEL SEASON 4 and BUFFY SEASON 7/SERIES FINALE SPOILERS BELOW
All right, Angel Season 4 is over. The Finale wasn’t really a finale so much as an epilogue. Now that Season 4 is over, I can definitively say that while a few individual episodes were quite good, the overall story arc sucked. The plot was all over the place, and based on a truly gross premise, and the only good thing I can really say about the Season 4 finale is that it finally got rid of Conor, a way that I suppose brings some closure to Angel about his son. No idea what Wolfram & Hart are up to but it’s entertaining to see Angel Inc. movin’ on up. I like the geeky scientist guy they are putting opposite Fred.
As for Buffy Season 7 and the Series Finale… the season overall exceeded my expectations and the finale was great fun. Having Angel pop out of nowhere was great, and there were lots of little references that seemed to be bringing the show back to its roots. One of the best moments was when Dawn tased Xander, while he was still driving, before she even finished reading Buffy’s letter, and whipped the car around without even missing a beat. The kick in the shin was a nice touch too.
I figured out in advance more or less what they were going to do to beat The First, though I have to admit I thought their plan was going to be much more radical. I thought they were going to repeatedly kill and resurrect Buffy and Faith so that all of the girls would be chosen as slayers. Either way I liked how Buffy finally accepted that she isn’t alone, and found it very fitting that they would return to the high school and face the hellmouth once and for all. As an RPG geek, I thought the +10 Pointy Blade of Monster Smiting was totally badass. I am thoroughly satisfied with the series finale and thought it was a great end to a great show. The only downside is just that it’s hard to leave so many wonderful characters behind. Willow has now apparently become the Good Witch and it would have been nice to see where that went.
I have a feeling Spike and Faith are going to turn up on Angel. (Well, I watched Angel S5 Ep. 1, and the DVD cover on Netflix has a prominent picture of Angel and Spike, so I know for a fact Spike is going to turn up on Angel.)
I guess I should give my final ranking now…
5,6, 2+3, 7, 4, 1
And looking forward to closing out Angel Season 5, even if he is apparently going to spend the whole season in want of a haircut.
Have only read page one of this thread, because I don’t want to be spoilered, but I started Buffy this week too! When this thread first started I went and put Buffy on my Netflix Queue, and this week got around to starting it. I just watched “Lie to Me” in season 2. Very excited to see what happens next!! I’m probably going to start it over when my husband gets out of the field in a couple of weeks so we can watch it together.
The fun is just getting started! I can’t wait to finish Angel Season 5 so I can read through all these spoiler boxes.